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#1
08-15-2006, 09:36 PM
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Ruling about putting chips in front of one\'s cards
I am head-up in tournament at Borgata, but very short-stacked, with about 4x the big blind. I am dealt 45o in the SB, limp, and the BB raises all in. I start counting my chips out in front of me to determine if the odds are forcing me to call, and one of the tournament directors declares that I have called the bet because I placed some of my chips in front of my cards. (At this point, a bunch of TDs, dealers, and other people are standing around watching the end of the tournament.) I protest, claiming I have never heard of this rule before, and they are only enforcing it now because so many people are watching, but another TD affirms that I have called the bet.
So I just accepted that this is a rule, but I was watching the WSOP broadcast tonight, and saw a player blantantly count out his chips in front of his cards just like I did (Lamkin counting when had 88 and DN had AQ), and nobody seemed to have a problem with this. I feel like I've seen people do this on many occassions. Is this just an Atlantic City rules, was the Borgata TD wrong, or is the WSOP just not enforcing it? 
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#3
08-15-2006, 10:09 PM
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Re: Ruling about putting chips in front of one\'s cards
[ QUOTE ]
In Atlantic City, your cards are the betting line. Now you know. [/ QUOTE ] Even if this is true, I thought that placing chips less than the amount of the bet into the pot was not necessarily a call, except that you had to forfeit those chips into the pot if you decided not to complete the call.
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#4
08-15-2006, 10:54 PM
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Re: Ruling about putting chips in front of one\'s cards
[quoteEven if this is true, I thought that placing chips less than the amount of the bet into the pot was not necessarily a call, except that you had to forfeit those chips into the pot if you decided not to complete the call.
[/ QUOTE ] Is that a real ruling? (Not completing a call/forfeiting chips) That would be a pretty unusual ruling.
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#5
08-15-2006, 11:42 PM
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Re: Ruling about putting chips in front of one\'s cards
[ QUOTE ]
[quoteEven if this is true, I thought that placing chips less than the amount of the bet into the pot was not necessarily a call, except that you had to forfeit those chips into the pot if you decided not to complete the call. [/ QUOTE ] Is that a real ruling? (Not completing a call/forfeiting chips) That would be a pretty unusual ruling. [/ QUOTE ] The local cardroom near me uses this rule for tournaments (any chips past the betting line stay in the pot). Of course they have an actual betting line so it's not as bad. This seems very open to angle-shooting, especially for players who use chips as card protectors. What if you lift your cards for a peek and your chip slides forward. Can the raiser rule that as a call for the full raise?
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#6
08-15-2006, 11:47 PM
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Re: Ruling about putting chips in front of one\'s cards
You've just nailed the reason why I prefer to use non-playing chips from other casinos.
That and I like to show off my tiny collection, but you nailed the practical reason.
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#7
08-16-2006, 10:48 AM
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Re: Ruling about putting chips in front of one\'s cards
[ QUOTE ]
That and I like to show off my tiny collection. [/ QUOTE ] If it's a "tiny collection" then what's too show off? Further, how many of these chips do you walk around with? Do you protect your cards with a stack of ten casino chips from varying locales? If you only bring one chip with you at a time, then who would even think that your one chip is part of a collection?
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#8
08-16-2006, 11:07 AM
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Re: Ruling about putting chips in front of one\'s cards
A few months ago at Borgata, I was holding a stack of chips in my hands at the 10/20. I do this when I'm in a hand, especially at Borgata where I'm always fumbling those sticky chips. Anyway, I was holding my hands together out over the table, with the chips, and the dealer indicated that my hands (with chips) being in front of my cards at the rail indicated a call of whatever the action was.
It didn't influence the hand at all, but that's how I learned about cards as the betting line at Borgata. Now when I play there and am involved in a hand, I protect my cards with a chip and then push them up closer to the center of the table so I can still have chips in my hands without a "forward motion." I do this everywhere now as a force of habit. Rob
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#9
08-16-2006, 11:10 AM
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Re: Ruling about putting chips in front of one\'s cards
I should know that no imprecision will go unpunished. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I only use one at a time. I maybe carry three or so on a B&M trip because on occasion I change them around (maybe gives the impression I'm supersitious, who knows?). So you're right, I'm not showing off my collection, I'm showing off an element or two from my collection. I felt the need to point out my collection is tiny because I know there are some serious chip collectors here and I wouldn't claim to encroach on their territory. I'm just an accumulator.
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#10
08-16-2006, 07:28 PM
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Re: Ruling about putting chips in front of one\'s cards
In a tourney (all I play), placing ANY amount of chips in the pot, but less than the calling amount, is construed as a call. You will be forced to fix your bet to the correct amount and not allowed to string raise (as always).
Exception: If you toss a T25 chip (or some unrealisticly small amount) after someone has gone all in for T6000, it's pretty apparent you clearly misunderstand the amount of the bet, and you (probably) will be allowed to take your chip back and redo your action. If a nit calls the floor, you may be forced to call but that would generally be a pretty bad ruling.
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