Omnipotence Doesn't Imply Seeing The Future. - Page 9

The once and future king · #81 01-13-2006, 01:11 PM

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I have not read the rest of the thread.

The traditional problem in the phil of religion is that a contradiction is supposed to arise if god is thought to possess the following attributes:

1. Omnipotence
2. Omniscience
3. Omnibenevolence

If god is omnipotent, then he has the power/ability to prevent evil. If god is omniscient, then he knows how to prevent evil. If god is omnibenevolent, then he is all-loving and all-good, and therefore would not allow any evil.

The contradiction comes with the observation that there is, in fact, evil in the world (both man-made and natural).

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This contradiction is solved easily by concluding that the evil in the world must ultimately contribute to some higher good that we are unaware of.

The once and future king · #82 01-13-2006, 01:17 PM

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Uh... Eh...

First of all, I don't see why He can't be finite/limited, but anyway, suppose He can't...
How does Him existing within the/a timeline make him finite?

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Intresting. An all powerfull but limited God. Nahhh. I mean what created that which limits it? (God). Just a silly idea.

If God could only exist in our time line that would make him mortal.

Philo · #83 01-13-2006, 02:30 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
I have not read the rest of the thread.

The traditional problem in the phil of religion is that a contradiction is supposed to arise if god is thought to possess the following attributes:

1. Omnipotence
2. Omniscience
3. Omnibenevolence

If god is omnipotent, then he has the power/ability to prevent evil. If god is omniscient, then he knows how to prevent evil. If god is omnibenevolent, then he is all-loving and all-good, and therefore would not allow any evil.

The contradiction comes with the observation that there is, in fact, evil in the world (both man-made and natural).

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This contradiction is solved easily by concluding that the evil in the world must ultimately contribute to some higher good that we are unaware of.

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Far from resolving the contradiction easily, this response (which is common) is tantamount to saying nothing more than "There only appears to be a contradiction, and we are just too ignorant to explain why there isn't really one." In other words, it says nothing more than "I won't accept that there's really a contradiction, and all I can say in defense of that conclusion is that I can't really explain why."

The idea of positing a 'higher good' that makes the evil that exists somehow necessary does not solve the problem--the fact remains that there is evil in the world and conceiving god as having those three attributes leads to a contradiction. God could just as well have created a world with whatever 'higher good' you might conjecture evil is required for, without creating the evil.

The once and future king · #84 01-13-2006, 02:42 PM

Duuuuh.

If the evil serves a higher good then it isnt evil. Therefore god hasnt created any evil. It is only considered evil via relative and temporal judments made by a bunch of monkeys with oversized craniums.

P.S. I am in no way Christian.

soon2bepro · #85 01-13-2006, 04:59 PM

Agree w/ philo.

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If God could only exist in our time line that would make him mortal.

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Lol, this is ridiculous. Where do you get this argument from? Lol.

Do matter and energy exist in our time line? Yes. Are they all mortal? LOL!

akashra · #86 01-13-2006, 05:32 PM

Lol.

Some nice logical analysis there, no?

If there was such a "God" I think it would be insulting to put such an all-inclusive creator in human terms. Why pretend to know the unknowable?

Wow, my first post and it's on religion rather than poker.

~Richard (Akashra777)

Piers · #87 01-13-2006, 06:44 PM

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.
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If God could only exist in our time line that would make him mortal.

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Lol, this is ridiculous. Where do you get this argument from? Lol.

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Doesn’t look like an argument to me.

Although if the universe is finite, then an entity existing in our time line (whatever that’s meant to mean) might well mean the entity is mortal.

Alternately, while within an infinite universe, an immortal entity would appear theoretically possible, demonstrating this might prove tricky even for the entity itself.

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Do matter and energy exist in our time line? Yes. Are they all mortal? LOL!

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Wrong adjective, still matter and energy seems to constantly change state. Curious things happen to time when you approach extremes. What does time mean to a photon?

Personally I think the whole subject shows a certain naivety/preconception about what time is.

The once and future king · #88 01-13-2006, 08:28 PM

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Agree w/ philo.

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If God could only exist in our time line that would make him mortal.

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Lol, this is ridiculous. Where do you get this argument from? Lol.

Do matter and energy exist in our time line? Yes. Are they all mortal? LOL!

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Given that time isnt infinte. Yes. To exist ONLY within time is to be ultimately subject to the finity of that dimension.

Mortality isnt a word I would apply to energy/matter rather no energy/matter is eternal.

The once and future king · #89 01-13-2006, 10:06 PM

Also, I should have said this before, in your mind where is God before the begining of time?

Philo · #90 01-13-2006, 10:29 PM

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Duuuuh.

If the evil serves a higher good then it isnt evil. Therefore god hasnt created any evil. It is only considered evil via relative and temporal judments made by a bunch of monkeys with oversized craniums.

P.S. I am in no way Christian.

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This adds nothing to what you already said. Just because evil might serve some higher good does not mean that it is not evil. It is not possible to plausibly deny that there is evil in the world--there are natural disasters, there are diseases, there are man-made evils. These are all facts.

But even granting that we can make sense of the claim that these apparent evils are in fact only apparent evils, then the fact that we experience them as if they were evils, and the fact that we experience pain as a result, is itself an evil, and this does not depend on the other evils being genuine.

In addition, if god is all-powerful and all-knowing, then god can create a world without these evils in it and that still has the higher good in it, whatever that might be. If he cannot do that, then you must explain why.