Did Mike M made a mistake with the Kings? (WSOP spoiler)

[bilbo-san]

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Didn't Doyle say the day he lays down KK pre flop is the day he stops playing poker??

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I think it was Harrington that said something like that in one of the HOH books.

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Actually, the part you are referencing says that he's heard about other players laying KK down, but has never done so himself. He goes on to say "I guess I'm just not good enough to fold KK."

....and basically anyone who hasn't made multiple WSOPME final tables should probably add a silent " and neither are you." to that when reading it to themselves.

Seriously, as somone pointed out, you must be 85% sure that Lazaar has AA to lay this down. Mike isn't that good. Neither are you.

In fact, I think most people would have trouble folding QQ here!

And suggesting that the second-shortest stack won't re-raise with AK is kind of silly. I didn't think Lazaar was a great player, but he's smart enough to know that he can't just fold until he gets QQ+. This isn't the first round of the event, it's the final table and blinds are significant. Just about every pot is raised. Are you going to muck AK every time you aren't the opener? AK looks pretty damn good vs. an open-raiser's range, even an early position raise. This is doubly true when you are one of the short stacks.

[Fallen Hero]

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Hasan Habib folded KK preflop in WPT foxwoods (and was correct).

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So did Irie. Folding KK preflop is the nuts.

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I've folded KK pf too, I'm a superstar.

[andyfox]

I don't see it as a mistake. Lazar did indeed grimace when he looked back at his cards, but I don't see how you put him on aces only there.

Interesting that some say Matusow went on tilt after that hand. Looked to me that Lazar did. I know Scott a bit, but I have to agree with his own assessment that he self-destructed. Putting all that money in with K-9s and then knocking himself out with Q-T, well, there's not much good that can be said of those two hands. Also the A-J hand where he called a reraise against the queens when he said, "That's my pot."

[Vincent Lepore]

Lazar definitely went on tilt but it wasn't because of the Matasow hand.

Vince

[Vincent Lepore]

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suggesting that the second-shortest stack won't re-raise with AK is kind of silly.

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Suggesting that the second smallest stack, holding A,K, would make a mid position reraise (less than his whole stack) that was an easy call for an under the gun raiser is silly. Especially with players yet to act.

Vince

[andyfox]

Maybe it was the hand he folded and would have made quad aces? I dunno. Like I say, I know Scott a bit and he sometimes is prone to play a lot of hands when he gets a bit puffed up. I think he's more likely to play faster and looser after a big win rather than a bad beat or other loss.

Then again, all that poker, who knows. You'd like to think you'd be at your best at the final table of the WSOP, but he sure wasn't. Andy Black's all in with K-J against the pocket jacks was shocking, to me, too. Black said he put his opponent on a small pocket pair, but would his opponent have raised into all those players (there were 2 or 3 others already in IIRC) with a small pair?

[Vincent Lepore]

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You'd like to think you'd be at your best at the final table of the WSOP, but he sure wasn't. Andy Black's all in with K-J against the pocket jacks was shocking, to me, too.

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When I saw the final table play I was also shocked at some of the hands and how they were played. But then I thought hey Congradulations to all of those guys that made it there. It was no easy feat. The pressure must have been tremendous and I believe that it showed up in some of the play but so what. They got there and that's good enough for me.

Vince

[andyfox]

I spoke to one of Lazar's backers today. He was there watching Scott every day. He said the TV show really didn't do justice to Scott's play. Which is, it seems, what you're saying: to have gotten to the final table was a remarkable achievement. The backer said he thought that perhaps the hand where Scott would have made quad aces did indeed effect him in that, afterwards, Scott said had he played that hand he felt he would have won the tournament.

Who knows, though. As I said before, Scott tends to play too many hands when he gets pumped up. He might have felt he was invincible with the K-9s and the Q-T and played them the same way. According to his backer, Lazar was running on fumes at the end. FWIW . . .

Regards,
Andy

[Vincent Lepore]

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FWIW

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A lot in my book. Thanks.

Vince

[Vincent Lepore]

The discussion here on the Mike Matasow hand had Lazar possibly holding A,K. I contended that A,K was not a possible hand for Lazar. My reason was that since there was an early raiser if Lazar had A,K he would either call or move in and not make a raise somewhere in between. One that figured to be easily called by the early raiser. He also had to consider that there were other players yet to act which makes a move in more likely by a short stack.

On the very next hand (at least it was the next one they showed on TV) Kondracki raised with T,T and Danneman with A,Qo moved in. That is how one would expect hands like this to be played.

I know I am simplifying things and there are no absolutes in poker (even more so in tournament play) but I thought that this was a good example of what one would expect from these types of hands and fortunately it comes right from the final table.

Vince