The American "Obesity Epidemic?"

[Blarg]

Thing is, many of these things go together. Like, kidney problems can lead to heart attacks and strokes, which seems unlikely and comes about through a roundabout way, but they can. So you can't look at diabetes in a vacuum; it causes a host of other problems, which themselves start up symptoms that worsen the prognosis with diabetes, etc.

[Thremp]

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Thing is, many of these things go together. Like, kidney problems can lead to heart attacks and strokes, which seems unlikely and comes about through a roundabout way, but they can. So you can't look at diabetes in a vacuum; it causes a host of other problems, which themselves start up symptoms that worsen the prognosis with diabetes, etc.

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Very true. But what I was trying to get across is that the claims were exaggerated. People who lose limbs are people who aren't trying to take care of themselves. Though I'd stand an argument that anyone that obese isn't taking care of themselves already.

But the fact remains that aside from being really fat sucking terribly. You're gonna die.

[JavaNut]

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People who lose limbs are people who aren't trying to take care of themselves. Though I'd stand an argument that anyone that obese isn't taking care of themselves already.

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The point is that it is very difficult to take care of yourself in that way need to avoid complications, especially if you are not diagnosed until later in your life.

If your point is that people are stupid not to change their ways when diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, your are right, but people are stupid, that is a fact of life. As cheetas do change their spots so do people not change their ways. Just as losing poker players often never improve but just consider themselves unlucky, they do not realise that they should change.

I was diagnosed earlier this year and have almost chocked the nurse as I have shed about 12 kg in three months and have cut most sugar from my diet, so that my blood sugar level is now under control. I intend to lose about 6-7 kg more and to still work on my diet. I do not get any medicin for it, and would very much like it to stay that way for, but it will leave a uphill battle for the rest of my life.

And it is the last part that make most people lose out to type 2 diabetes, you are in for an uphill battle for the rest of your life, if you are going to be off drugs. For my part I hope that that battle will last at least 45 years more.

[Thremp]

Java,

Just guessing from your post. You aren't one to really make any sort of observation. You are some fattie with type 2 betes' talking abotu some inane topic that bears little resemblance to what Blarg and I were discussing. It is not "difficult" to take care of yourself. Your doctor or anyone can explain what to do in explicit detail. Compared to the results it is very very easy, I have little clue where you are going with this and I stand my ground on previous comments.

[JavaNut]

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Java,

Just guessing from your post. You aren't one to really make any sort of observation. You are some fattie with type 2 betes' talking abotu some inane topic that bears little resemblance to what Blarg and I were discussing. It is not "difficult" to take care of yourself. Your doctor or anyone can explain what to do in explicit detail. Compared to the results it is very very easy, I have little clue where you are going with this and I stand my ground on previous comments.

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What a mature argument. "You weigh more than me, so you don't know what I am talking about".

I do know what type 2 diabetes is all about. And it is true that there are millions of doctors around the world, who can tell you how you should live your life, the problem is that they don't live it for you. I can make the corrections I need to make, but as you are still young-ish, you probably have not had to make major corrections to your own life yet, so you would not understand how difficult it is for 95-99% of this worlds population to change their life.

If you ever watch Dr. Phil, try to ponder on why on earth the guests are doing to themselves what they are doing. Can't they see that they need to change? Yes they can, otherwise they wouldn't be on the show. What they don't know is how. And not how as in 'stop yelling at your kids' but how do I change my automatic response to the kids behavior.

In your teens when your mom nagged you about something, I bet your response was the exact same every single time. I'll bet that if your mom nagged you about the same today, your feelings inside would be exactly the same, over time you might have learned not to yell at her, but the same stress of her interfering with your life is still the same. To change your own life you need not only to not yell at your mother, which is only a superficial change, you need to change the internal reaction. Next time your mother nags you, you will now how far you yourself have to go to be able to change yourself.

And about calling me a fattie? Have you got turrets or something else that prevents you from writing a dignified response?

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

i think it would help to have a cooking class in elementry where kids are taught how to cook different foods from other parts of the world, then maybe they will develop tastes for food other than fast food and can learn how to cook it cheaply. In America, it seems like people almost regard food as 'fuel' and try to consume as much of it as possible, while in other countries food is a huge part of their lives. On another message board, I remember some people living in Asia asking and complaining "Why does everyone have to talk about food 4 hours a day. Eat a meal, spend the entire meal talking about how good it tastes and how it couldve tasted better".

Another this is that vegetables in America are [censored] expensive. Last December, lemons were a $1 each. A pack of mushrooms was $3 or something. A box of strawberries was $5. I have no idea why food costs this much in the USA. Are fruits and vegetables considered a specialty food now? Frozen vegetables are seriously disgusting.

Also, it seems like fat people try to make their kids fat. Like you see a huge parents taking him to Mcdonalds and ordering him a big meal. Don't they hate being fat? Why don't they want to help him stay thin and healthy?

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Java,

Just guessing from your post. You aren't one to really make any sort of observation. You are some fattie with type 2 betes' talking abotu some inane topic that bears little resemblance to what Blarg and I were discussing. It is not "difficult" to take care of yourself. Your doctor or anyone can explain what to do in explicit detail. Compared to the results it is very very easy, I have little clue where you are going with this and I stand my ground on previous comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a mature argument. "You weigh more than me, so you don't know what I am talking about".

I do know what type 2 diabetes is all about. And it is true that there are millions of doctors around the world, who can tell you how you should live your life, the problem is that they don't live it for you. I can make the corrections I need to make, but as you are still young-ish, you probably have not had to make major corrections to your own life yet, so you would not understand how difficult it is for 95-99% of this worlds population to change their life.

If you ever watch Dr. Phil, try to ponder on why on earth the guests are doing to themselves what they are doing. Can't they see that they need to change? Yes they can, otherwise they wouldn't be on the show. What they don't know is how. And not how as in 'stop yelling at your kids' but how do I change my automatic response to the kids behavior.

In your teens when your mom nagged you about something, I bet your response was the exact same every single time. I'll bet that if your mom nagged you about the same today, your feelings inside would be exactly the same, over time you might have learned not to yell at her, but the same stress of her interfering with your life is still the same. To change your own life you need not only to not yell at your mother, which is only a superficial change, you need to change the internal reaction. Next time your mother nags you, you will now how far you yourself have to go to be able to change yourself.

And about calling me a fattie? Have you got turrets or something else that prevents you from writing a dignified response?

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I once had an idea for a business that was called 'Fat people Prison'. People would pay me to lock them in a room with a television, books, magazines, jacuzzi, bed, bathroom, hand lotion, play station and then I would feed them three healthy meals per day. Each day I would let them go out in the exercise yard and use the swimming pool. After they had lost X amount of pounds, they would be let out of fat people Prison.

Do you guys think that would actually work? If someone had summer vacation between college classes they would have a good 10 weeks. People are able to save up sick days at work and could do a 10 week session. If self discipline is that hard for people, maybe this is a viable option.

[shemp]

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I once had an idea for a business that was called 'Fat people Prison'.

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I think research settings have approximated this and one of the findings is that the would be clients and their friends sneak in contraband and an underground economy develops between the subjects and their minders establishing alternative prices for cheetos, ho-hos, and KFC. Monitors scratch their heads as a fair share of the inmates maintain weight. And those that do lose weight and achieve release quickly regain the weight once "on the outside." I gather the mind and body have a strong aversion to stimuli that evoke "starvation." None of which provides any commentary on the likelihood of success for such a business model. So, do I think it work? I suppose it would depend on the marketing?

Anyway. (I'm screwing around, kinda.) I've dipped in and out of this thread and one of the negative aspects of it, in my opinion, anyway, is an unhealthy dose of self congratulation (and related self affirmations) for possessing superior knowledge and will power.

As to the questions posed by the original post and some tangents, a few links I've found interesting (not necessarily endorsing every viewpoint):


Substandard care for diabetics:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/11/nyregi...3f6&ei=5070

Corn (& among other things, Diabetes):
http://www.michaelpollan.com/article.php?id=41

The Wealth/Obesity Correlation:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/magazi...0ea&ei=5070

If the packaging commits to telling you it is healthy, it isn't (I can't find a much better article I've read that makes this claim (and others), I think by Pollan?):
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/06/busine...bc7&ei=5070

Even Meat isn't Meat:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/dining...1c1&ei=5070

Some other interesting food articles:
http://www.michaelpollan.com/write.php

[shemp]

I also wanted this article, on a genetic disposition to obesity:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health...276&ei=5070

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

I don't know if it'd work. Ive seen 'fat camp' joked about. The fact that they would have a 100% guarantee of losing X pounds would probably attract a lot of people. I'm sure you would need a therapist on hands and there would be screaming and crying the first week and emotional break downs, but Id think they would get over it after their stomachs start to shrink and their bodies get used to the smaller calorie intake. When they notice that they are losing weight, perhaps they become happier. Turning it into a reality TV show could be profitable.