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#81
05-30-2007, 03:15 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
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[ QUOTE ] Did a doctor touch your pee-pee when you were little? You seem to have much contempt for the profession. [/ QUOTE ] You're correct that I have contempt for the profession. [/ QUOTE ] Why? 
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#82
05-30-2007, 03:16 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
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I have a hard time believing your story and I have an even harder time believing that someone could be so incompetent as to let most of the things happen that you describe. [/ QUOTE ] You are a babe in the woods. We've had it easy, this was just just normal, day-to-day type interaction with insurers. [ QUOTE ] Cancelling "children's" insurance doesn't even happen. [/ QUOTE ] Hoo boy, what to do with you. My wife's only response to your comment was "fffft." The plan was New Jersey Family Care. It's a public program for kids only, but not administered by the state. They hire for profit corporations to run it. They make their money by keeping expenses below what the state contracts to pay them. We were very lucky to be able to speak English and know how to work the phones, and eventually beat coverage out of them. [ QUOTE ] much of the insurance company's energy is spent on dealing with regulations. This is not an argument in favor of MORE regulation. [/ QUOTE ] They are not "dealing" with government regulation, they are creating their own to avoid paying. It's a system where profits come from avoiding coverage, so that's what they do. This is a case of AC ideology providing you with prerecorded slogans. Government regulations and rules set by a corporate insurer are entirely different things. The facts on the ground are that bus loads of seniors take afternoon excursions to Canada instead of the casinos in order to fill their scripts. The fact is that study after study have shown the single payer systems to have better health results for lower costs. You got a $170k procedure paid for smoothly? Well bully for you. Go tell the checkout clerks at Walmart how great our system is. [ QUOTE ] All medical providers bill insanely high amounts on the first bill. You need to call them and tell them you can't afford it [/ QUOTE ] As a matter of fact, we just flatly refused to pay more than $200. Why I should prefer that system is beyond me. [ QUOTE ] Sitting in an ER for hours while your heart disintegrates? That is an error of medical negligence, not a system error....That is an edge case, an anomaly, and worth millions potentially. [/ QUOTE ] I come from a family of physicians. Mistakes happen in medicine as much as at your mechanic's, just with different results. We didn't sue because that would solve nothing. Interesting though that you did not suggest the market as a solution. But I agree those types of mistakes will not be solved under single-payer. My point is just that the performance of the medical market system is not a reason for keeping it, because it works crappy on all levels.
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#83
05-30-2007, 03:16 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Did a doctor touch your pee-pee when you were little? You seem to have much contempt for the profession. [/ QUOTE ] You're correct that I have contempt for the profession. You are incorrect in assigning the motivation for my opinion. [/ QUOTE ] Its cool, I'll treat you anyhow. [/ QUOTE ] Outside of fixing trauma or cancer, I can't see myself ever going to a doctor.
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#84
05-30-2007, 03:21 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
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Mistakes happen in medicine as much as at your mechanic's, just with different results. We didn't sue because that would solve nothing. [/ QUOTE ] WTF? If the mechanic makes a negligent mistake that causes damage to your car, you would expect them to compensate you for that damage, no? If a physician makes a negligent mistake that costs someone their health or life, should they not be held to the same standard as the mechanic who screwed up your car?
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#85
05-30-2007, 03:27 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Did a doctor touch your pee-pee when you were little? You seem to have much contempt for the profession. [/ QUOTE ] You're correct that I have contempt for the profession. You are incorrect in assigning the motivation for my opinion. [/ QUOTE ] Its cool, I'll treat you anyhow. [/ QUOTE ] Outside of fixing trauma or cancer, I can't see myself ever going to a doctor. [/ QUOTE ] Outside of my car breaking down, I can't see myself ever going to a mechanic.
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#86
05-30-2007, 03:29 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Did a doctor touch your pee-pee when you were little? You seem to have much contempt for the profession. [/ QUOTE ] You're correct that I have contempt for the profession. You are incorrect in assigning the motivation for my opinion. [/ QUOTE ] Its cool, I'll treat you anyhow. [/ QUOTE ] Outside of fixing trauma or cancer, I can't see myself ever going to a doctor. [/ QUOTE ] Outside of my car breaking down, I can't see myself ever going to a mechanic. [/ QUOTE ] Post of the day....we have a winner!!!! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#87
05-30-2007, 03:32 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
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[ QUOTE ] Mistakes happen in medicine as much as at your mechanic's, just with different results. We didn't sue because that would solve nothing. [/ QUOTE ] WTF? If the mechanic makes a negligent mistake that causes damage to your car, you would expect them to compensate you for that damage, no? If a physician makes a negligent mistake that costs someone their health or life, should they not be held to the same standard as the mechanic who screwed up your car? [/ QUOTE ] Higher standard, if you ask me. Medical mistakes are far less forgivable than automotive mistakes, and for that reason much greater measures must be taken to reduce their number. Unfortunately, it seems to be the case that a certain amount of random error is going to occur in any system, so the best way to reduce the overall incidence of medical error is from an institutional approach. Malpractice lawsuits tend to punitively target individual physicians, but fear of making mistakes isn't a good motivator for success. Rather, putting doctors in positions where they cannot fail is more effective. But I don't have a huge problem with malpractice suits. I'm too young to be a part of this old guard of physicians that imagine themselves to be above reproach. I'm way more interested in perfecting the craft of helping people than covering my own ass.
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#88
05-30-2007, 03:34 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
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You got a $170k procedure paid for smoothly? Well bully for you. Go tell the checkout clerks at Walmart how great our system is. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know this for sure, but I'd assume Walmart employees have pretty good health coverage available if they want it. I worked at Barnes & Noble in the trenches, and part-timers had access to the health insurance after a year of work; full-timers after a month. It was damn good too.
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#89
05-30-2007, 03:35 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
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[ QUOTE ] You're correct that I have contempt for the profession. [/ QUOTE ] Why? [/ QUOTE ] Medicine charges outrageous amounts for treatments that don't really do anything. We spend more and more money every year on healthcare, but we don't get any healthier. People get risky 10k gastric bypass surgery when they just need to eat less, or even riskier 100k triple bypass surgery -- that does nothing to improve a patient's life expectency -- when they just need to eat oatmeal and spinach. Type 2 diabetes is an epidemic, even though it is completly preventable, and even reversable through diet and excercise. The number three cause of death in the US is "Death by Medicine" (nosicomical infection+bad drug reactions+medical errors). You get the idea.
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#90
05-30-2007, 03:36 PM
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Re: Can someone explain the health care \'crisis\' to me?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Mistakes happen in medicine as much as at your mechanic's, just with different results. We didn't sue because that would solve nothing. [/ QUOTE ] If a physician makes a negligent mistake that costs someone their health or life, should they not be held to the same standard as the mechanic who screwed up your car? [/ QUOTE ] Holding the doctor "to the same standard" is an attractive principle. Pretty. It sparkles. But a lawsuit would do little to change medical practice, at least not more than a talk with an administrator, "hey, here's what happened," which is what we did. Lawsuits will not change the quality of health care, they just inflate the size of corporate legal departments and butt covering measures. We did not see my father's death as an opportunity to win the lottery, though if a judge could order him back to life, we'd reconsider.
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