It's about time we had this discussion

[Dan Bitel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What hands are you raising in EP that you fold to a re-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

AJ/AQ/KQ/SCs/22-99

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I don't raise SC's in EP. Agreed on KQ-AJ-AQ. About the small pairs: with $100 stacks, you raise to $4, 35/18 re-raises to $10, do you auto-fold? If not, what is the most important: bet size / opponent's postflop play / position / something else?

[/ QUOTE ]

for 6Bbs more, no I don't fold, vs a pot sized reraise....ie like 9BBs more...yes small PPs are a clear fold

[einherjar]

So in conclusion aislephive is not only wrong but also an angry person who is hurting the forums with his attitude. having a positive, open minded attitude might help you learn from the better posters. try it. discussion is what spawns greatness, not online bickering and post-count tallying w/ one word answers.

[mikechops]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I tried varying my bets depending upon the strength of my hand after NLHET+P came out. I quickly got the impression my small bets were correctly perceived as marginal/drawy holdings and big bets got significantly less action. I gave up after a while and went back to a standard pot bet - with exceptions against short stacks and from the blinds. To be honest, if I were to try it again I might try betting big with marginal holdings and small with stronger hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

why were you raising less with your marginal hands? Do you think these were hands that favoured callers or folders?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was more of a big hand/big pot logic, but yes I'd rather play a multiway pot with SCs ect.

[Dan Bitel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I tried varying my bets depending upon the strength of my hand after NLHET+P came out. I quickly got the impression my small bets were correctly perceived as marginal/drawy holdings and big bets got significantly less action. I gave up after a while and went back to a standard pot bet - with exceptions against short stacks and from the blinds. To be honest, if I were to try it again I might try betting big with marginal holdings and small with stronger hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

why were you raising less with your marginal hands? Do you think these were hands that favoured callers or folders?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was more of a big hand/big pot logic, but yes I'd rather play a multiway pot with SCs ect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which of these situations is better?

1) you raise to 4BBs with 67s and get 2 callers
2) you raise to 6BBs with 67s and get 1 caller

And these two?

3) you raise to 4BBs with AA and get 2 callers
4) you raise to 5BBs with AA and get 1 caller

[aislephive]

Goofy, this isn't a catholic high school. People really need to calm down and stop trying to enforce people being "kind" to one another. I haven't even attacked anybody and people are acting like I just killed Jesus. There are rules you must follow on 2p2, and I haven't broken any of them. Get off my case already.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]



Ok, so when stacks are 500bbs deep you should be open raising to 20xbb? Do you realize how retarded that is? Risking 20bbs to win 1.5? Also, rarely will everybody be 200bbs deep. If you have two guys other than yourself 200bbs deep, and two other guys with < 100 bbs then your strategy is not only unreasonable but is very exploitable, particularly if say somebody at the table has 50bbs and can play perfectly against you.

There was a thread in msnl debating whether stack sizes or blinds dictated raise sizes. In reality they both do to a degree but blinds are more significant.

Also wtf raising to 4x with 200bb stacks is not the same thing as minraising in a 100bb stack game. That is beyond retarded. Just because the default buyin for an online NL cash game is 100bbs doesn't mean the goal is to always have everything in relation to it at all times. That's the biggest BS I've ever heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

AP, pretty obviously, the deeper every1 is, the bigger your preflop raise should be, they shouldn't be in a 1 to 1 ration for sure, but to say that if every1 is 500BBs deep that a 4xBB+1 open is optimal is IMO pretty wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I do agree that there is some consideration to that, but it applies way more to deep stacked live games because 1. Your average player has a much narrower range when open raising than a 6 max online player would and 2. Everybody has deeper stacks generally. In 6 max NL online games where the games are CAPPED at 100bbs, I see no reason to start making ridiculously large raises because a few others are deep as well. The beauty of being deep is to be able to make a lot of small investments that could pay off big, ESPECIALLY against fish.

[Dan Bitel]

AP,

I'll agree that out of all the things to consider when tihnking about raise sizes, stack sizes should be pretty near the bottom of the list.

However, I think that theoretically, raising a certain amount b/c you have a certain hand or are against a certain player, DOES matter

[Paul Thomson]

One of my first posts in SSNL was on the topic of making Smaller Raises from Early Position and ironically titled, "Calling out Dbitel". Here were my thoughts then not necessarily my thoughts now.

Calling out Dbitel

[Paul Thomson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I tried varying my bets depending upon the strength of my hand after NLHET+P came out. I quickly got the impression my small bets were correctly perceived as marginal/drawy holdings and big bets got significantly less action. I gave up after a while and went back to a standard pot bet - with exceptions against short stacks and from the blinds. To be honest, if I were to try it again I might try betting big with marginal holdings and small with stronger hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

why were you raising less with your marginal hands? Do you think these were hands that favoured callers or folders?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was more of a big hand/big pot logic, but yes I'd rather play a multiway pot with SCs ect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which of these situations is better?

1) you raise to 4BBs with 67s and get 2 callers
2) you raise to 6BBs with 67s and get 1 caller

And these two?

3) you raise to 4BBs with AA and get 2 callers
4) you raise to 5BBs with AA and get 1 caller

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually want fewer people in the pot with both suited connectors and AA.

Withi suited connectors, I think you gain alot of equity by having Folding Equity which I tend to think is easier against one person because one person is less likely to have a hand they'll felt.

With AA, I'd rather have one person because I feel that my EV is much higher against one person than 2 people when we get to the flop and beyond. And since I usually will continue ot the turn and river with AA, I'd rather have the higher Pot Equity.

The only hand where I like having multiple players is small to medium pocket pairs because if I hit my set, I'm going to felt regardless of the action of multiple players.

[josh_x]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]



Ok, so when stacks are 500bbs deep you should be open raising to 20xbb? Do you realize how retarded that is? Risking 20bbs to win 1.5? Also, rarely will everybody be 200bbs deep. If you have two guys other than yourself 200bbs deep, and two other guys with < 100 bbs then your strategy is not only unreasonable but is very exploitable, particularly if say somebody at the table has 50bbs and can play perfectly against you.

There was a thread in msnl debating whether stack sizes or blinds dictated raise sizes. In reality they both do to a degree but blinds are more significant.

Also wtf raising to 4x with 200bb stacks is not the same thing as minraising in a 100bb stack game. That is beyond retarded. Just because the default buyin for an online NL cash game is 100bbs doesn't mean the goal is to always have everything in relation to it at all times. That's the biggest BS I've ever heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

AP, pretty obviously, the deeper every1 is, the bigger your preflop raise should be, they shouldn't be in a 1 to 1 ration for sure, but to say that if every1 is 500BBs deep that a 4xBB+1 open is optimal is IMO pretty wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that you should generally raise more when deeper, but only because people will call more. The depth of stacks mean nothing in itself, but the effect it has on people's calling ranges means that often raising bigger than 4x is better.

[Dan Bitel]

paul,

with SC, you're right about 1 caller

with AA, i'd rather have 1 more caller