STTF SNG->cash thread - Page 9

slimon · #1 10-02-2007, 06:50 PM

Voluntarily Put Money Into the Pot: the fundamental indicator of a player's preflop looseness, and one of the best gauges of a player's hand range. At uNL, you want your opponents' VPIPs to be as large as possible. The more hands they play, the worse they are, and the more money you'll make against them.

Ok I understand what it is but how do tell if they are really loose or not compared to the amount of hands they play? Give me some examples of a loose player and a tight player. Thank you.

Josem · #2 10-02-2007, 06:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok I understand what it is but how do tell if they are really loose or not compared to the amount of hands they play? Give me some examples of a loose player and a tight player. Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Loose: 30% +

"Average": 20% - 30%

Tight: < 20%

That's for 6 max. They're just my perceptions, and fairly arbitrary.

If it counts for anything, when table selecting at Party $100NL, I datamine for a while, and only sit at tables with an average VPIP of over 30%.

slimon · #3 10-02-2007, 07:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok I understand what it is but how do tell if they are really loose or not compared to the amount of hands they play? Give me some examples of a loose player and a tight player. Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Loose: 30% +

"Average": 20% - 30%

Tight: < 20%

That's for 6 max. They're just my perceptions, and fairly arbitrary.

If it counts for anything, when table selecting at Party $100NL, I datamine for a while, and only sit at tables with an average VPIP of over 30%.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was just a number like how much money they put in say like 50 bucks or something. So if they played like 30 hands and put in like 30 bucks they are loose? How come the thread is so wide?

Josem · #4 10-02-2007, 07:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought it was just a number like how much money they put in say like 50 bucks or something. So if they played like 30 hands and put in like 30 bucks they are loose? How come the thread is so wide?

[/ QUOTE ]

VPIP is a percentage (obviously out of 100)

Your tracking program will look at the x many hands that the player has played. It then counts the number of times that player has voluntarily put money into the pot - this is simply a question of frequency, not of how much.

It then takes the number of times a player has put money into the pot, and divides that by the number of hands played.

Eg, if a player has played 100 hands, and they have put money into the pot 25 times: 25/100 = 25%

slimon · #5 10-02-2007, 08:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought it was just a number like how much money they put in say like 50 bucks or something. So if they played like 30 hands and put in like 30 bucks they are loose? How come the thread is so wide?

[/ QUOTE ]

VPIP is a percentage (obviously out of 100)

Your tracking program will look at the x many hands that the player has played. It then counts the number of times that player has voluntarily put money into the pot - this is simply a question of frequency, not of how much.

It then takes the number of times a player has put money into the pot, and divides that by the number of hands played.

Eg, if a player has played 100 hands, and they have put money into the pot 25 times: 25/100 = 25%

[/ QUOTE ]

How many hands the opponent has to play before I can start using them to tell if they are loose or not?
Josem you are awesome =0.

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #6 10-02-2007, 10:23 PM

I think I just sat down at table and was a few hands into the start of my session, so again no reads. How is my line?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($2.90)
BB ($24.75)
UTG ($4.85)
MP1 ($55.35)
MP2 ($38.25)
CO ($25.55)
Hero ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, MP1 calls $2.

Flop: ($6.35) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $3, MP1 calls $3.

Turn: ($12.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $11.75, MP1 raises to $23.5, Hero calls $7 (All-In).

River: ($49.85) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $49.85

Jbrochu · #7 10-02-2007, 10:27 PM

Villain is 46/7/1 but only 30

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($26.85)
Hero ($25)
BB ($18.70)
UTG ($25.25)
MP ($23.95)
CO ($22.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises to $1, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, BB raises to $3, Hero calls $1.50.

Turn: ($8) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2, Hero raises to $15

Is this just spew?

Josem · #8 10-02-2007, 10:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 46/7/1 but only 30
...

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Is this just spew?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. A 46/7/1 isn't likely to give you much fold equity. Someone like that apparently doesn't like folding, so you're likely to get paid off if you hit your straight - so put your money in when you're ahead, rather than when you're behind.

Just calling the turn is fine.

microbet · #9 10-03-2007, 01:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 46/7/1 but only 30
...

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Is this just spew?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. A 46/7/1 isn't likely to give you much fold equity. Someone like that apparently doesn't like folding, so you're likely to get paid off if you hit your straight - so put your money in when you're ahead, rather than when you're behind.

Just calling the turn is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

With just 30 hands this is true, but one needs to keep an eye on the postflop play of players who are very loose preflop. Many of them are much more straightforward postflop and end up with very marginal hands that they are willing to put some money in with, but will fold to significant pressure.

In general you should really pay a lot of attention to players who are very loose preflop as you are very likely to have them involved in any hands you play.

ChrisV · #10 10-02-2007, 10:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 46/7/1 but only 30

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($26.85)
Hero ($25)
BB ($18.70)
UTG ($25.25)
MP ($23.95)
CO ($22.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises to $1, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, BB raises to $3, Hero calls $1.50.

Turn: ($8) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2, Hero raises to $15

Is this just spew?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I'd just fold to the flop raise vs this guy, you're getting odds to draw to your outs but you have no idea whether they're any good. Your line might work but requires you to invest too much in the pot. btw you also raised far too much on the turn, $10 or $12 would be enough to give him the message.

Edit: Call flop is probably a bit better but it's marginal and in general I dislike drawing to hands when they could easily not be good.

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