Why you guys aren't crushing these Microlimit games...

[stir]

Going back to read some of Ed Miller's old posts and found this.

Excellent. Every novice 2+2'er should read.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Going back to read some of Ed Miller's old posts and found this.

Excellent. Every novice 2+2'er should read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on what you mean by "novice." If you're talking about someone new to serious poker, I disagree. I read this about a month into my foray into on-line poker, tried to follow this advice, and got absolutely killed. This post (and the information contained herein) needs to be tempered with a solid background in the fundamentals (i.e., experience). Once I had several thousand hands (and 2 or 3 poker books) under my belt, it all started making sense, and I was able to apply it appropriately.

Don't get me wrong, it's good information. However, it's like trying to teach a kid to drive using a Ferrari -- it makes a lot more sense to teach 'em the basics in dad's Oldsmobile and then they can learn the Ferrari later. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing and I don't want the brand new folks to end up wrapped around a telephone pole. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[DMBFan23]

bump

[Cosimo]

I just read this post, and I won my next two hands. Thanks, Ed, that's over 10BB in my pocket!

in other words, *bump*

[Blarg]

One of my favorite threads since I started scanning this place months ago.

"They won't buy it, because they're fish, and they don't care"

Yeah they will. Ever hear that phrase, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing?" The same way the average joe traps himself by trying to rigorously apply book-learned advice for higher level usually tighter games to lower looser games, he'll just grab the next book and mis-apply that too.

From UUdevil:

"3) You might win the pot right here (which might well have happened in this case)."

Yes, but you might also get people with horrible hands to pay you all the way to the river, bluffing or calling all the way. This happens with me an awful lot. By having just a little more reasonable pre-flop standards than they do, you often wind up getting these guys to pay you off all the way for very minimal risk. Isn't it better to have them (and maybe all their pals do so sometimes) pay you off than kick out their crappy hands and scoop a tiny pot?

[Peter Harris]

no. it's better to be closer to 100% likely to drag several small pots than it is to have players chase you down for a sub-optimal chance at a big pot.

You're welcome to take on the big scores. While you're dragging the occasional 25-30BB pot, i'll chip away at the regular 5-7BB pots and we'll see who gets richer first.

A pretty naff example of this is in super/system.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
no. it's better to be closer to 100% likely to drag several small pots than it is to have players chase you down for a sub-optimal chance at a big pot.

You're welcome to take on the big scores. While you're dragging the occasional 25-30BB pot, i'll chip away at the regular 5-7BB pots and we'll see who gets richer first.

A pretty naff example of this is in super/system.

[/ QUOTE ]

*laughing* well I'd like to see the game where you have close to a hundred percent chance of dragging most of your small pots.

I think the better point is that all kinds of game textures can be profitable. In the games where the pots are routinely huge and you have trouble driving people out, well you may win fewer pots but its nice to drag those monsters. In the less raucous games where you have good control over the table and can drag a lot of small pots...well that's good too.

Recognizing and adjusting to the table...not a bad way to play.

--Zetack

[WiredPear]

I guess that begs the question of what a big pot is? When do I know I'm at that point where I can call a pot down?

[SuitedSixes]

Background-

My daughter is still asleep, so I'm going to, hopefully, play through an orbit before she wakes up. First hand at this table, no read, other than they look like people I've seen here before . . . only with different names. I'll put my thoughts here as they apply.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (Left handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.

I'm not sure if this is a +EV move, or not. I usually wait until the BB unless I am going to be CO, then I take my chances.

UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero (poster) calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Obviously, from the start, I'm hoping for a flush, so a big pot with lots of callers is what I was hoping for. I am uncomfortable with the raises and re-raises, but if there's one thing that brings down big pocket pairs, it's a flush, so I'll take a look at the flop. If I don't like it, I muck.

Flop: (24 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>

SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets . . .

Not great. Here's where I start hearing Ed's voice asking, "How big is the pot." And I "start thinking about how I am going to win it." Another 6? Runner-Runner for the flush? King? I have enough options and the pot is big enough to give me odds for these possibilities, so I'm in.

Hero calls, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls,

A raise. Not too much to worry about, probably still a big pocket pair. Ed wouldn't like me folding at this point, so . . .

Hero calls.

Turn: (16 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>

Good, but not great. I am still behind KK, 22, 44 and probably some other stuff that I've been known to overlook. KK seems like the most logical at this point. Let's figure out where we stand and get some more money into this pot.

MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls $6.50 (All-In),

Ooops. There's your KK. Well, this pot is too big to get away from now. If he has "The Cowboys" (props to VVP) I can still win with a 6. And I have pot odds to risk that he doesn't have KK (220:1), that I can catch one of 2 remaing 6's (23:1) or Party will disconnect him (50:50)so . . .

Hero caps, Button calls, MP1 calls.

Results, River, and everything except a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in white below: <font color="white">

River: (30.62 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 players, 1 all-in)

Hmmm . . . that looks like Planter's* to me Yay! Thanks to The Voice of Ed Miller (which in my mind sounds a lot like Lou Grant) and my lovely sleepy 2-year old for the biggest win of my budding poker career! Let's get some more money into this pot!

MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, MP1 calls.

In hindsight, a check-raise would have been cool, stylish, profitable, and most importantly, extra-painful here, but I just wasn't thinking clearly

Final Pot: 33.62 BB

MP1 shows Ac Ks (two pair, kings and sixes).
MP2 shows 2s 2d (full house, twos full of sixes).
Hero shows 6c Kc (full house, sixes full of kings).
Button shows Ad As (two pair, aces and sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins 33.62 BB.

Someone, somewhere (probably on this forum) is posting a bad beat about how he lost a $125 pot with AA to some fish with K6s. The reality is, the raising and re-raising gave me pot odds the whole way that made it illogical for me to fold.

*I am claiming to have just made up 'Planter's' . . . as in 'The Nuts.' So if you ever here VVP use it, you can know he stole it from me! Thanks again, Ed.</font>

[Mayhap]

That made me chuckle. Thanks!
/M