Moderating The Forums: a suggestion

[jman220]

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OK. It was a suggestion to reduce the level of noise on the forum.

However, please also point out exactly why the statements they are making are anti-semitic. Otherwise, it is just noise.

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ACPLAYER,
I have on numerous occasions pointed out specific examples of anti-semitism on that board. You people in the anti-israel camp conveniently ignore, or fail to respond. Here is a thread where Peter666 clearly indicates that he is an anti-semite. LINK If you read this post, and the responses and the follow-ups, you will clearly see classic anti-semitism, a negative view of an entire people based on extremely anecdotal evidence and broad generalizations. Note that that poster was talking about "Jews" not "Israelis." I find it very fascinating that all you anti-israeli's are so quick to jump to the defense of an anti-semite like this, even when it clearly is "Jews" that he is disparaging, and not "Israelis." It is telling of what many of you anti-israeli's really feel. Now it is my opinion that many people on that board, based on their extreme anti-israel views (not all), feel similar to Peter, but they're just not as stupid as him to actually say something along the lines of what he said, and get called out for it.

Regards,
--jman220

[Arnfinn Madsen]

It is not difficult to read that he is antisemittic. IMO he stepped across a line. It could be interesting if he would explain the roots and nature of Russian antisemitism, but he just uses that theme as a cover to state his own antisemittic opinions.

Since this thread is pointing in all directions anyway and touch onto anecdotes from Russia, I was once stopped in Moscow by a group of youths. They asked if they could take a picture of them together with me. I agreed and they took several photos. Then they said they would send me some music they had made and asked me for my address, which I provided. Some weeks later I received a cassette wrapped in a paper with swastikas, SS-symbols and slogans like "all jews must die" etc. in German and Russian. I really did not see it coming, they seemed very friendly and openminded during our meeting, so it came as a total shock. The Russian neonazism makes me really [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img], they are sort of supporting an ideology which label them as inferior.

[ACPlayer]

I just glanced very quickly thru the responses. Most of them are you and Copernicus, I dont see many "anti-Israelis .... quick to jump to his defense" There may ofcourse have been some. The post generated a lot of discussion on prejudice.

This is clearly the power of this forum. Someone makes a comment and people take him to task for it.

Clearly, too, that if you want to you can take him to task for his comments, without applying the term "anti-semite".

Prejudice is a very hard to understand and we are all prejudiced about things about others, specially when we dont have a clear understanding of the other parties environment, expectations and reasons for behaviours. The content of the posts can and should be taken apart, however, I have decided for myself, that labelling a poster with any label (fascists and bigots are ones I have used in the past) does not promote conversation.

It is something else to say that Ahmedjan is a anti-semite and yet another thing to call, for example, you (as one of the posters on the forum) one.

[Gregatron]

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Is the opposition to the policies of Israel anti-semetic or anti-zionist?

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Not necessarily either. Many would disagree with Israel's policy of pulling out of part of Gaza and the West Bank, yet certainly could not be categorized as either. Others (like me) have issues with the current bombing campaign of Lebanese infrastruture and killing of civilians (however inadvertant -- and it is inadvertant I beleive).

I am not a religious person. I beleive God promised this land to anyone. Does that make me anti-Zionist? To some it might. I don't really think of myself that way. I think of Zionism as just another label that I am not going to subject myself to having a position to. Many Jews have different interpretation of Zionism anyhow.

My personal belief is that that Israel should keep its current borders and do what it can to live in peace with its Arab neighbors. This might mean having to share the Arab parts of Jerusalem, but it also mean many Arabs doing more to promote peace. I have problems with some of the actions that Israel does, but I think most reasonable people that sympathize with the Palestinians will say that they and others have to also get thier house in order.

In short, there is plenty of blame to go around.

[Myrtle]

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Is the opposition to the policies of Israel anti-semetic or anti-zionist?

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Not necessarily either. Many would disagree with Israel's policy of pulling out of part of Gaza and the West Bank, yet certainly could not be categorized as either. Others (like me) have issues with the current bombing campaign of Lebanese infrastruture and killing of civilians (however inadvertant -- and it is inadvertant I beleive).

I am not a religious person. I beleive God promised this land to anyone. Does that make me anti-Zionist? To some it might. I don't really think of myself that way. I think of Zionism as just another label that I am not going to subject myself to having a position to. Many Jews have different interpretation of Zionism anyhow.

My personal belief is that that Israel should keep its current borders and do what it can to live in peace with its Arab neighbors. This might mean having to share the Arab parts of Jerusalem, but it also mean many Arabs doing more to promote peace. I have problems with some of the actions that Israel does, but I think most reasonable people that sympathize with the Palestinians will say that they and others have to also get thier house in order.

In short, there is plenty of blame to go around.

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Greg,

Thanks for the response.

Yes....I would agree that there is plenty of blame to go around.

In reflecting back upon the question I asked, I realized that simplifying it to policies 'only' is not clear enough.

I should have differentiated between 'policies' and 'actions'.

Actions taken by participants in the conflict may or may not be reflective of stated policies.

Such is one of the horrors of war, and one of the many reasons that it should be the action of last resort.

[Myrtle]

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I aslo fear what I see as 'mob mentality' surrounding this specific issue, and ask all posters, as you do, to be very sensitive to where that type of mentality leads.

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An example of what that kind of mentality can lead to is the Holocaust.

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Arnfin....

It's clear to me that some either do not agree with, cannot see the link between, or disagree with your chain of thinking re: 'cause & effect' regarding this topic.

I would ask those who disagree this question.....

Is hate based 'mob' mentality more likely or less likely to lead to violent actions?

[Sniper]

Just a reminder that this is the ATF forum, not the Politics forum, and imo this thread has wandered far from its original purpose...

[Gregatron]

The biggest problem with the politics forum, and why I don't post there anymore, is so many people poisoning the well. This is a constant issue from many people regarding just about every issue that comes up. I don't have a lot of patience for this kind of crap. If a student in one of my intro political science courses said anything half as stupid as some of those yahoos do I would tell them to shut up or leave.

[Gregatron]

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Just a reminder that this is the ATF forum, not the Politics forum, and imo this thread has wandered far from its original purpose...

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You are right. Sorry for my contribution to this.

[Myrtle]

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I am still waiting for Dynasty to substantiate his opinion.


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....going on two days now.

Glad we're not holding our breath.