Ftp stole my money

[BurnleyMik]

Doug has not posted here since the day all the main questions were brought to light. I wonder if he has been told to stay away until this issue blows over or if its just a coincidence..........?

And unfortunately without Doug or anyone else from FTP coming forward to help, then I dont think this matter can ever be resolved. Whether eric is guilty or not he has been denied the right to refute the allegations or to have the case against him proven.

To sum it up, I personally will not play on a site where this treatment of a player can happen so easily and the company can get away with whatever they like and not be forced to backup anything they say. So I am now staying well away from FTP and UB because of these incidents. I will stick to sites like AP and PS who obviously care about their customers and help if problems arise.

As for the rest of you guys..I am sure you have already made up your minds.

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[SweetPea]

At the very least, if OP is indeed a criminal participating in credit card fraud and/or grand theft, shouldn't FTP contact the authorities?

But if they did that...uh oh...the accused may be found not guilty and the site would have to reveal their "evidence" supporting their decision to take $20k from the accused.

So, the sites keep the money (they are happy). The true criminals are free to try again the next time they steal a credit card (they are happy). And nobody loses but the honest players who are occasionally swept up in the dragnet.

Fantastic.

It's going to be interesting to watch the fireworks when inevitably some credit card fraudster begins targetting known players for chip dumping. Have fun proving to the forums and site operators that you don't know the guy that called your $5k bet on the river with his 4-high. You better hope your roll at that site is less than what they expect to make from you over the life of your account.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, and quite frankly 100% of the burden of proof should be placed squarely on the shoulders of Full Tilt Poker. We can't trust ericjones on face, so Full Tilt Poker should clear up everything for us. Yet they've disappeared, and everyone is OK with that. Makes me sick.

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You and I and everyone who isnt Eric in this thread have no right to expect Full Tilt to clear this matter up publicly.

[Gotmilk]

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Yes, and quite frankly 100% of the burden of proof should be placed squarely on the shoulders of Full Tilt Poker. We can't trust ericjones on face, so Full Tilt Poker should clear up everything for us. Yet they've disappeared, and everyone is OK with that. Makes me sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

You and I and everyone who isnt Eric in this thread have no right to expect Full Tilt to clear this matter up publicly.

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We don't have "rights" to a lot of things. This isn't a "rights" issue. It's an issue of Full Tilt will not see a cent of mine so long as they don't resolve the matter publically because they don't have the "right" to my deposits. And it would behoove all of you to do the same for your fellow players, lest it be you in their situation one day. But everybody is blinded by $$$ signs. If it doesn't affect you personally, why care?

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
It's going to be interesting to watch the fireworks when inevitably some credit card fraudster begins targetting known players for chip dumping. Have fun proving to the forums and site operators that you don't know the guy that called your $5k bet on the river with his 4-high. You better hope your roll at that site is less than what they expect to make from you over the life of your account.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would they do that? That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The reason people steal credit cards is to make money or if they are a degenerate, play. Intentionally losing money to a regular out of spite doesn't satisfy either of these goals.

[ QUOTE ]
At the very least, if OP is indeed a criminal participating in credit card fraud and/or grand theft, shouldn't FTP contact the authorities?

But if they did that...uh oh...the accused may be found not guilty and the site would have to reveal their "evidence" supporting their decision to take $20k from the accused.

So, the sites keep the money (they are happy). The true criminals are free to try again the next time they steal a credit card (they are happy). And nobody loses but the honest players who are occasionally swept up in the dragnet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the companies start reporting all these players to the authorities it only strengthen the US govt's cause which is very bad for the business model and the poker community as a whole.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
This isn't a "rights" issue. It's an issue of Full Tilt will not see a cent of mine so long as they don't resolve the matter publically because they don't have the "right" to my deposits. And it would behoove all of you to do the same for your fellow players, lest it be you in their situation one day.

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As far as I'm concerned Full Tilt has cleared this matter up. All the problems I have had with them have been handled quickly and satisfactorily. Since I don't plan on committing fraud or opening a second account or running my roll up 20 fold and cashing every cent out I shouldn't raise any flags and should never come across a problem such as this.

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This isn't a "rights" issue. It's an issue of Full Tilt will not see a cent of mine so long as they don't resolve the matter publically because they don't have the "right" to my deposits. And it would behoove all of you to do the same for your fellow players, lest it be you in their situation one day.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I'm concerned Full Tilt has cleared this matter up. All the problems I have had with them have been handled quickly and satisfactorily. Since I don't plan on committing fraud or opening a second account or running my roll up 20 fold and cashing every cent out I shouldn't raise any flags and should never come across a problem such as this.

[/ QUOTE ]

But as you said above, issues like this only strengthen the government's case. Wouldn't you like these issues resolved to everyone's satisfaction, and not just yours? I'm not the only reputable poster who finds FTP's handling of the situation more than just a little bit lacking. There are two other very very recent similar cases to this with FTP and UB, and the older UB problem mentioned above. The only difference between the cases is the reputation of the OP. THERE ARE NO OTHER DIFFERENCES OTHER THAN THE REPUTATION OF THE OP. Quite frankly, I put accused players ahead of the poker sites in terms of who to believe, even if the poker player is a huge douchebag. All they have to do is show their proof to someone I trust--It doesn't even have to be me. There needs to be a 3rd party dispute resolution system established by the poker rooms to resolve these disputes.

[BurnleyMik]

[ QUOTE ]


As far as I'm concerned Full Tilt has cleared this matter up . All the problems I have had with them have been handled quickly and satisfactorily. Since I don't plan on committing fraud or opening a second account or running my roll up 20 fold and cashing every cent out I shouldn't raise any flags and should never come across a problem such as this.

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Wow....I guess you are not very fussy then. I am starting to believe that you are in some way involved with FTP. Why do you believe its ok for a company to accuse you of something and then not have to show some evidence to back up the claims???

I really cannot see how you think that this has been handled and cleared up by FTP satisfactory....that crazy (unless you have ulterior motives?)

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


As far as I'm concerned Full Tilt has cleared this matter up . All the problems I have had with them have been handled quickly and satisfactorily. Since I don't plan on committing fraud or opening a second account or running my roll up 20 fold and cashing every cent out I shouldn't raise any flags and should never come across a problem such as this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow....I guess you are not very fussy then. I am starting to believe that you are in some way involved with FTP. Why do you believe its ok for a company to accuse you of something and then not have to show some evidence to back up the claims???

I really cannot see how you think that this has been handled and cleared up by FTP satisfactory....that crazy (unless you have ulterior motives?)

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In fairness, I doubt he has ulterior motives other than believing what he wants to believe because that's where he plays, and doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds. Pretty natural reaction.

[5thStreetHog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's going to be interesting to watch the fireworks when inevitably some credit card fraudster begins targetting known players for chip dumping. Have fun proving to the forums and site operators that you don't know the guy that called your $5k bet on the river with his 4-high. You better hope your roll at that site is less than what they expect to make from you over the life of your account.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would they do that? That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The reason people steal credit cards is to make money or if they are a degenerate, play. Intentionally losing money to a regular out of spite doesn't satisfy either of these goals.


[/ QUOTE ]Really lol This has to be the best line yet.Clever criminal goes around dumping 5G`s a pop to known 2+2`ers in the hopes that they will have their accounts froze.100Gs lost will pale in comparison to the pleasure he receives at night when he fires up a bag of popcorn and gets to read their crys in the forum.
What what what!!!!!!!! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]