ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[DVaut1]

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Here's my recommendation (and I think we all trust Lloyd):

If, in the future, anyone in the MTT forum becomes aware of widespread cheating occuring, they PM Lloyd so he can make an "official" announcement or something -- Lloyd can post something like "Attention: this kind of cheating seems to be occuring. Everyone should be aware". Lloyd agrees to not reveal whoever PMed him.

I understand how complicated these situations can be among friends, etc. Maybe this way too alarmist, going over-board, whatever. But it sounds like genuinely good and honest people knew what was occuring and were in impossibly difficult situations. At the very least, it lets everyone in the community be aware of the cheating issues that exist in the games. I realize it does nothing for the masses who aren't 2+2 members, but I think this is at least an improvement. Hopefully people don't abuse it and PM Lloyd everytime they get sucked out and think they're being colluded against.

Alright, flame away. I admit this is probably stupid. And my advanced apologies to Lloyd if he hates this idea.

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I think that's a good idea, as long as it doesn't turn into an unsubstantiated rumor fest.

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How could it not?

If you have suspicions, this is not the place. Inform the affected sites ONLY. Don't post here. Don't IM your buddies. Don't tell your sister...

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't work in this venue. Slander will be interpreted as fact by many.

Why are we insisting on taking such a dangerous line?

Commies and witches everywhere! Burn'emallll!!!11!one1

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1) I can make a case for informing the sites, but I completely understand why people would be hesistant to do this. Alot of people here seemed to think informing the site was a bad option.

2) I would HOPE it wouldn't turn into just "hey I saw some suspicious activity" -- but more along the lines of "Lloyd (or whatever trustworthy third party became responsible for reporting cheating issues to the community), I *know* this is going on".

Lloyd (or whoever) could use the poster's reputation to decide if he wants to take action or not, and alert the community.

Anyway, I admit it's flawed for the reasons you mention -- it would probably descend into baseless finger pointing. And I admit such a plan would give Lloyd an enormous headache -- and I certainly have no right to volunteer him for a very difficult job.

[cl8on]

This topic is 10 hours old and is averaging almost 1.5 posts a minute. And still climbing.

[graydot]

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This topic is 10 hours old and is averaging almost 1.5 posts a minute. And still climbing.

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Zeejustin > JJ ?

[gumpzilla]

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Lloyd (or whoever) could use the poster's reputation to decide if he wants to take action or not, and alert the community.

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A poster's reputation here is almost always based on how much money they have made and nothing else. Look at the idolization of JJ and Zee. In JJ's case, I can't really think of many active contributions he ever made, and in Zee's case, he was kind of a pompous douche. These guys had good reputations.

Also, the community doesn't really need to be alerted. While I've enjoyed these bloodbaths as much as (or more than) the next guy, the important thing is that the cheating be curbed. The public stoning serves some purpose now to start nipping it in the bud, but now it's known that Party is coming after these guys.

[bwana devil]

your defense is so weak and so wrong on so many levels. it made me laugh reading it. what an expensive lesson you learned this today.

bwana

[DVaut1]

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Lloyd (or whoever) could use the poster's reputation to decide if he wants to take action or not, and alert the community.

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A poster's reputation here is almost always based on how much money they have made and nothing else. Look at the idolization of JJ and Zee. In JJ's case, I can't really think of many active contributions he ever made, and in Zee's case, he was kind of a pompous douche. These guys had good reputations.

Also, the community doesn't really need to be alerted. While I've enjoyed these bloodbaths as much as (or more than) the next guy, the important thing is that the cheating be curbed. The public stoning serves some purpose now to start nipping it in the bud, but now it's known that Party is coming after these guys.

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My question (and I honestly don't know):

How long did some people here (good, ethical, honest, non-cheating people) know JJ and ZJ were multi-accounting but remained silent?

In other words, did this really get "nipped in the bud"? Are there other cheating mediums that "everyone knows about" (like JJ and ZJ claimed is true of multi-accouting) that some privileged few are aware of, but remain unknown to the rest of us?

When JJ and ZJ say "everyone knew about multi-tabling", I suspect that's patently false. I think what they mean is "everyone who we're friendly with knows we do it" or "everyone who we're friendly with is involved". But I would guess 95%+ of MTTers were unaware this was going on. However, it seems like SOME people *may* (and I want to continue to stress *may*) have known but said nothing to the rest of us who had no idea that some of the best players were cheating. And I would like for that not to happen again. And I think it's unethical to remain silent about such information if you do know it's occuring.

[costanza_g]

JJP must be sooo jealous right now. His thread took weeks to climb past the 400+ post mark. Then ZJ comes along and bangs out 800+ in a matter of hours.

ON-TOPIC: This whole thing blows. It's been a very disappointing day.

[playerzero]

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If these guys were smart they would go to a cash table and start dumbing there chips to one of there friends.

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This would be a good way to get even more accounts frozen.

[gumpzilla]

I think what they mean is, "Everybody in the insular world of high stakes tournament players that we like to associate ourselves with is aware that this is at least a reasonably common practice." I don't think they really care what players like you or me think, and so it shows in their language.

[ononimo]

has anyone taken note of the "soundtrack" to ZJ's post on pocketfives: listen for yourselves

straight comedy ... kudos to p5!