ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[bigballz]

I think his new title is funnier than the old one. "enthusiast"
hahahaha

[curtains]

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What do you think, ZJ went around telling dozens of people that he was cheating months ago and everyone sat around and did nothing?

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I have absolutely no idea; did he? I doubt he did. That would be very bad poor judgment if he did.

But it sounds like (and again, I could very well be totally wrong here)... but given that JJ and ZJ both mentioned that "lots of people do it" -- it sounds as if this was sort of "common" knowledge among those "in-the-know".

Maybe it's sour grapes, but I do feel cheated that I didn't know. I don't play in the big MTTs often (but I do play in them occasionally) -- and even if it didn't cost me money directly, it did cheat others out of their money. I think those who did know, but who weren't involved in cheating, should have felt some obligation to "sound the alarm" or whatever. This probably could have been done without ratting anyone out. The MTT forum on 2+2 would have been an appropriate place, IMO.

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I am SURE that lots of people either do it, or have done it in the past. Unfortunately I don't know whom these people are. I feel quite confident that many fewer will. I am told from someone who knows others whom have done this, that they will NEVER do it again. First off its -EV, the +EV of haivng multiple accts isnt worth the risk of losing all your money if you do well.

And no I won't reveal the name of the person who claims to know people who have done his [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[tagteam]

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*foot in mouth*
while I still don't think my EV is damaged enough to boycott these tournaments, I must say this is extremely surprising.

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Are you serious? These cheaters are making FTs by entering with muliple accounts and you don't think this hurts your EV? He can double himself up, know dead cards, etc. Plus, you don't know how many are cheating through IM. If a cheater will enter multiple times, he will not hesitate to cheat through IM or other means.

Join me and refuse to play against cheaters.

[whiskeytown]

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Secondly, almost all of you have broken the rules at some point. How many of you have created a second account for rakeback? Neither creating a second account nor receiving rakeback is allowed. Both are expressly forbidden. Maybe you’ll see things my way once all your money is seized for doing that. If I’m a cheater, so are you.


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If anyone is without sin in this matter, let him cast the first stone...

//picks up a big ass rock

RB

[Yeti]

[Copernicus]

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These actions are in my opinion borderline gray areas, but the honest truth is the sites are better off acting the way they have. To create a situation where it's acceptable to blurr the line is dangerous for the tourneys.

The fact of the matter is, even if these guys play 2 or 3 accounts the likelyhood that they end up at the same table in a 500 player event let alone a 5000 player event is relatively small. Also keep in mind there is diminished rewards with each additional account they play. Let's say first place in a $200 tourney is $100k and 2nd is $60k, they can get a 500x return on the first $200 buy in, and only have the opportunity for a 300x return on the second. As you can see there is an inherent cost associated with playing multiple accounts. In my opinion this cost exceeds any edge they may gain in the unlikely chance that two of their acounts wind up at the same table. I personally don't care too much if a player plays multiple accounts in the big multi tourneys cuz in my eyes 99.9% of the time it just adds to the prize pool. As a common practice it does however become a problem in small tourneys less than 100 people.

Like I said however, I agree with the web sites taking a strong stance against the practice, because it becomes dangerous not to. There are too many habitual line steppers out there, most of which need to be on a leash and this policy does just that.

I don't however consider Justin one of these players.

On Justin's behalf, I know the kid very well, and have grown to have much respect for him as a person, player and friend. I've been 3 handed with him in $1k sng's many times, and even tho we communicate on Instant Messenger, NEVER has he suggested any foul play (if anything that would be a convenient time no?). At the end of the sng's he usually goes completely quiet. While he can be a little brash, I think he's a good kid he was just trying to maximize his winnings in a grey area that until recently appeared to be acceptable behavior.

-Ed Moncada

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Uhhh....why would he suggest something underhanded to someone else when he already has this scam going?

[La Brujita]

I am really really steamed about this whole thing for many reasons, the main one being he has stolen my money.

I just want to point out having never cheated in any way that I have made the final three tables in at least 20 of bigger tournaments online. Those are 162s plus. I've only been playing a lot of tourneys since November and at least 10 have come since November. Of the 20 that includes at least 5-10 final tables.

That is one account gents and I am a cash game player. I don't focus on tourneys full time and there are way better tourney players than me.

You keep seeing the sames name pop and I have seen some odd things.

So to act like it is some big unlikelihood that players get far and have a huge advantage is just stupid.

I would be very interested in trying to understand a way to quantify how much ev Justin and JJ have cost me personally as we have played scores upon scores of tourneys together.

[ononimo]

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Cmon guys.
It's nice and all that multi accounters are being punished, but there is nothing worse than being a snitch.

I have alot more respect for someone who uses multiple accounts to maximize EV, than for someone who taddles.

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this attitude both disgusts and disheartens me ... such a misguided sense of honor and morality.

i hope you at least realize that terms like "rat" and "snitch" were created by the criminals themselves in order to manipulate others to keep quiet about their wrongdoing.

it's your life and you can choose to keep quiet while others do wrong if you wish. but don't you dare claim that do so is the honorable thing to do. by keeping quiet, you are, at best, a coward and, at worst, an accomplice.

[shaniac]

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I don’t think taking 100k of funds, which were earned through legit play, from ZJ’s account is a fair decision. One reason is that party will not be able to punish any of the other hundred or so players the same way.

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If he won the money with his scamming/changing names in high buy-in sit and go's, it was not a legitimate win. It was a clear cheat to the players who kept the same name as per Party Poker's policy and therefore were constantly facing a new player whom they had no information on, while Justin was able to play vs them with all the information he compiled. He admitted that was the exact reason why he did this, to gain this huge advantage. I really don't understand why more people aren't harping on this issue, because as a sit and go player, this is a much bigger issue to me than the multi-entering of multitable tournaments.

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Ricky, you make a fine point and it's probably going largely ignored because this is the MTT forum with MTT concerns.

ZeeJustin explaining on his blog that he likes to play anonymously--with the attached implication that he has more than 1 account in order to do this--was almost as stupid as JJProdigy bragging about winning the Party under a different name, and probably more corrupt.

I guess people don't realize that the rules that online poker rooms institute aren't just random obstacles for players, but in fact ways of making sure that supergeniuses like ZeeJustin don't get an unfair advantage over the average joe who knows only how to play one account.

[DVaut1]

Here's my recommendation (and I think we all trust Lloyd):

If, in the future, anyone in the MTT forum becomes aware of widespread cheating occuring, they PM Lloyd so he can make an "official" announcement or something -- Lloyd can post something like "Attention: this kind of cheating seems to be occuring. Everyone should be aware". Lloyd agrees to not reveal whoever PMed him.

I understand how complicated these situations can be among friends, etc. Maybe this way too alarmist, going over-board, whatever. But it sounds like genuinely good and honest people knew what was occuring and were in impossibly difficult situations. At the very least, it lets everyone in the community be aware of the cheating issues that exist in the games. I realize it does nothing for the masses who aren't 2+2 members, but I think this is at least an improvement. Hopefully people don't abuse it and PM Lloyd everytime they get sucked out and think they're being colluded against.

Alright, flame away. I admit this is probably stupid. And my advanced apologies to Lloyd if he hates this idea.