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| View Poll Results: THE HOLY SPIRIT COMES FROM | |||
| THE HOLY FATHER AND THE HOLY SON |
   
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17 | 48.57% |
| THE HOLY FATHER |
  
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18 | 51.43% |
| Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#791
08-08-2007, 10:50 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I never said anything remotely like #1, but since there is overwhelming evidence that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs, [/ QUOTE ] Did you provide any proof and/or evidence that this is true? [/ QUOTE ] Do you disagree with my assertion that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs? If you say you actually disagree, then I will (a) marvel at how any person could hold such a ridiculous opinion and then (b) provide the overwhelming evidence. Otherwise, you're just trying to bait me into another semantical/burden of proof argument, and I decline to engage. I think it's beyond obvious to any sensible person that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs. [/ QUOTE ] Actually it's not. Just because you think it seems intuitive that it would be doesn't make it so. There are many counterintuitive things that happen to be facts. What evidence is there suggesting that "home run hitters," whatever the hell that means, benefit more from steroids? Why wouldn't line drive hitters? Or fringe fourth outfielders? Or catchers recovering from the daily grind? [/ QUOTE ] Or people who give up too many gopherballs. 
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#792
08-08-2007, 10:59 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
Clark,
Pete Rose is an idiot. That's why I dislike him. I think that betting on your team while you're the player/manager is absolutely wrong as well, and warrants exclusion from the Hall of Fame, but I don't really hate him for that.
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#793
08-08-2007, 11:06 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
We have a new all-time home run record:
757!
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#794
08-08-2007, 11:14 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I never said anything remotely like #1, but since there is overwhelming evidence that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs, [/ QUOTE ] Did you provide any proof and/or evidence that this is true? [/ QUOTE ] Do you disagree with my assertion that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs? If you say you actually disagree, then I will (a) marvel at how any person could hold such a ridiculous opinion and then (b) provide the overwhelming evidence. Otherwise, you're just trying to bait me into another semantical/burden of proof argument, and I decline to engage. I think it's beyond obvious to any sensible person that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs. [/ QUOTE ] Actually it's not. Just because you think it seems intuitive that it would be doesn't make it so. There are many counterintuitive things that happen to be facts. What evidence is there suggesting that "home run hitters," whatever the hell that means, benefit more from steroids? Why wouldn't line drive hitters? Or fringe fourth outfielders? Or catchers recovering from the daily grind? [/ QUOTE ] So are you now arguing that steroids don't help hitters hit more home runs? Or just that it's not "obvious." I swear, you guys will argue anything except the actual argument. I said it's "obvious," not "intuitive." It's obvious from the massive offensive explosion in MLB that precisely coincided with the rise of steroids usage, and the words of Canseco, Caminiti et all who saw their strength/bat speed/home run total all skyrocket after they took steroids. I'm sure roids help all other hitters and pitchers too, but the results may not be as easy to see. I mean really, do you dispute any of this? This is seriously like explaining how bread becomes toast.
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#795
08-08-2007, 11:16 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I never said anything remotely like #1, but since there is overwhelming evidence that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs, [/ QUOTE ] Did you provide any proof and/or evidence that this is true? [/ QUOTE ] Do you disagree with my assertion that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs? If you say you actually disagree, then I will (a) marvel at how any person could hold such a ridiculous opinion and then (b) provide the overwhelming evidence. Otherwise, you're just trying to bait me into another semantical/burden of proof argument, and I decline to engage. I think it's beyond obvious to any sensible person that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs. [/ QUOTE ] Actually it's not. Just because you think it seems intuitive that it would be doesn't make it so. There are many counterintuitive things that happen to be facts. What evidence is there suggesting that "home run hitters," whatever the hell that means, benefit more from steroids? Why wouldn't line drive hitters? Or fringe fourth outfielders? Or catchers recovering from the daily grind? [/ QUOTE ] I said it's "obvious," not "intuitive." It's obvious from the massive offensive explosion in MLB that precisely coincided with the rise of steroids usage, and the words of Canseco, Caminiti et all who saw their strength/bat speed/home run total all skyrocket after they took steroids. I'm sure roids help all other hitters and pitchers too, but the results may not be as easy to see. I mean really, do you dispute any of this? This is seriously like explaining how bread becomes toast. [/ QUOTE ] LOL at "precisely." Btw, the more often you repeat how silly and obvious it is and how any idiot should know it without actually EXPLAINING it or making any cogent arguments, the weaker your position gets. Not stronger, as you appear to think. This is obvious.
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#796
08-08-2007, 11:18 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I never said anything remotely like #1, but since there is overwhelming evidence that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs, [/ QUOTE ] Did you provide any proof and/or evidence that this is true? [/ QUOTE ] Do you disagree with my assertion that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs? If you say you actually disagree, then I will (a) marvel at how any person could hold such a ridiculous opinion and then (b) provide the overwhelming evidence. Otherwise, you're just trying to bait me into another semantical/burden of proof argument, and I decline to engage. I think it's beyond obvious to any sensible person that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs. [/ QUOTE ] Actually it's not. Just because you think it seems intuitive that it would be doesn't make it so. There are many counterintuitive things that happen to be facts. What evidence is there suggesting that "home run hitters," whatever the hell that means, benefit more from steroids? Why wouldn't line drive hitters? Or fringe fourth outfielders? Or catchers recovering from the daily grind? [/ QUOTE ] I said it's "obvious," not "intuitive." It's obvious from the massive offensive explosion in MLB that precisely coincided with the rise of steroids usage, and the shrinking of the strike zone, and smaller parks, and better bats, and better weight training and video technology etc and the words of Canseco, Caminiti et all who saw their strength/bat speed/home run total all skyrocket after they took steroids. I'm sure roids help all other hitters and pitchers too, but the results may not be as easy to see. I mean really, do you dispute any of this? This is seriously like explaining how bread becomes toast. [/ QUOTE ]
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#797
08-08-2007, 11:20 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
"Precisely" was not the best word choice there, but I think you'll agree there's a pretty sharp correlation between when Canseco and the Bash Brothers started juicing and the offensive correlation, right?
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#798
08-08-2007, 11:20 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
the home run surge coincides with expansion (precisely), not an undemonstrated increase in steroid use.
as far as i know, no one has found solid evidence that steroid use improves hitter performance. sorry. i was once like you! reading cured me of my ignorance.
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#799
08-08-2007, 11:21 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
[ QUOTE ]
Clark, Pete Rose is an idiot. That's why I dislike him. I think that betting on your team while you're the player/manager is absolutely wrong as well, and warrants exclusion from the Hall of Fame, but I don't really hate him for that. [/ QUOTE ] 1. He was also never convicted 2. The Dowd report said he bet games in 87, when he was a manager only. That should have nothing to do with him getting in as a player. 3. The mandatory banning from baseball has nothing to do with the HoF. In fact, they had to change the rule ex post facto in order to deal with the Rose situation in as punative a manner as possible. Regardless, I have no desire to debate Pete, or frankly to debate Barry (I find it hysterical that JesQ is attacking my "position" on Barry when I have said nothing about him and I guarantee he has no effing clue as to my "position"). My whole point is that your stance on Barry relative to your stance on Pete are completely in conflict with each other.
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#800
08-08-2007, 11:22 PM
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Re: Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I never said anything remotely like #1, but since there is overwhelming evidence that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs, [/ QUOTE ] Did you provide any proof and/or evidence that this is true? [/ QUOTE ] Do you disagree with my assertion that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs? If you say you actually disagree, then I will (a) marvel at how any person could hold such a ridiculous opinion and then (b) provide the overwhelming evidence. Otherwise, you're just trying to bait me into another semantical/burden of proof argument, and I decline to engage. I think it's beyond obvious to any sensible person that steroids help home run hitters hit more home runs. [/ QUOTE ] Actually it's not. Just because you think it seems intuitive that it would be doesn't make it so. There are many counterintuitive things that happen to be facts. What evidence is there suggesting that "home run hitters," whatever the hell that means, benefit more from steroids? Why wouldn't line drive hitters? Or fringe fourth outfielders? Or catchers recovering from the daily grind? [/ QUOTE ] I said it's "obvious," not "intuitive." It's obvious from the massive offensive explosion in MLB that precisely coincided with the rise of steroids usage, and the words of Canseco, Caminiti et all who saw their strength/bat speed/home run total all skyrocket after they took steroids. I'm sure roids help all other hitters and pitchers too, but the results may not be as easy to see. I mean really, do you dispute any of this? This is seriously like explaining how bread becomes toast. [/ QUOTE ] LOL at "precisely." Btw, the more often you repeat how silly and obvious it is and how any idiot should know it without actually EXPLAINING it or making any cogent arguments, the weaker your position gets. Not stronger, as you appear to think. This is obvious. [/ QUOTE ] I'm just waiting for someone to disagree with any assertion I've made. The only disagreements I get are on semantics, whether I've met the burden of proof, offered enough evidence, etc.
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