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#71
04-02-2006, 03:57 PM
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Re: JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey
[ QUOTE ]
AK - 16 combo's AA - 12 combo's KK - 12 combo's QQ - 12 combo's JJ - 6 combo's 42 overpair > 16 overcards that was loosely his range, but still clear that a 3bet from the SB is likely. So far, it appears the main argument for raise is that we intend to take a free card. If we do in fact raise, the reason should be because we have good equity on this flop and want to increase the pot size. Raising for a free card will rarely happen here. Now, given that the main argument for raising is to get more money in the pot, I believe calling is the right option, that way we wont shut out the middle players, and SB will likely lead into them on the turn as well. [/ QUOTE ] I think that range would be fine if utg had raised and sb had 3bet over a bunch of coldcallers. just raising out of the SB isn't anywhere near that tight of a hand range, IMO. Surf 
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#72
04-02-2006, 04:04 PM
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Re: JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey
call<ul type="square">
arturiusX tolbiny victor stoxtrader milesdyson oreogod McGahee? Shillx Jason_t theMetetron baronzeus stellarwind kurosh josh poker1O1[/list] raise<ul type="square"> Spicymoose Wynton ? The bryce Westley878 Jeffage Nate tha great Ckessel DanBright DeathDonkey The_DaveR Helpmeout Keepitsimple Newhizzle Krishan Surfbullet trix[/list] This is just a list of anyone with 1K+ posts that have responded. This has no bearing on the argument, I was just amazed by the caliber of names on each side.
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#73
04-02-2006, 04:11 PM
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Re: JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] AK - 16 combo's AA - 12 combo's KK - 12 combo's QQ - 12 combo's JJ - 6 combo's 42 overpair > 16 overcards that was loosely his range, but still clear that a 3bet from the SB is likely. [/ QUOTE ] raising out of the SB isn't anywhere near that tight of a hand range, IMO. Surf [/ QUOTE ] let's seperate it into hands likely to 3bet and hands likely to call: AK - 15 combo's AQ - 15 combo's AJ - 12 combo's A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 1 combo A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 1 combo AA - 12 combo's KK - 12 combo's QQ - 12 combo's JJ - 6 combo's TT - 6 combo's This range is a little better, but some hands can be discredited, as I'm not sure villian leads here with AK-AJ with high frequency. Irregardless, it now shows 3bet range of 50 > 42 combo's. This is my main argument to call here.
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#74
04-02-2006, 04:31 PM
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Re: JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey
[ QUOTE ]
let's seperate it into hands likely to 3bet and hands likely to call: AK - 15 combo's AQ - 15 combo's AJ - 12 combo's A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 1 combo A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 1 combo AA - 12 combo's KK - 12 combo's QQ - 12 combo's JJ - 6 combo's TT - 6 combo's This range is a little better, but some hands can be discredited, as I'm not sure villian leads here with AK-AJ with high frequency. Irregardless, it now shows 3bet range of 50 > 42 combo's. This is my main argument to call here. [/ QUOTE ] JJ and TT are 3 combos each. 99 is a likely hand, at least as likely as AJo.
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#75
04-02-2006, 04:36 PM
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Re: JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] let's seperate it into hands likely to 3bet and hands likely to call: AK - 15 combo's AQ - 15 combo's AJ - 12 combo's A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 1 combo A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 1 combo AA - 12 combo's KK - 12 combo's QQ - 12 combo's JJ - 6 combo's TT - 6 combo's This range is a little better, but some hands can be discredited, as I'm not sure villian leads here with AK-AJ with high frequency. Irregardless, it now shows 3bet range of 50 > 42 combo's. This is my main argument to call here. [/ QUOTE ] JJ and TT are 3 combos each. 99 is a likely hand, at least as likely as AJo. [/ QUOTE ] Indeed. KQ? KQs? ATs? Can we expect an unknown to raise these? Surf
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#76
04-02-2006, 04:45 PM
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Re: JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey
AK - 15 combos
AQ - 15 combos AJ - 12 combos ATs - 3 combos KQs - 3 combos A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 1 combo A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 1 combo K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 1 combo AA - 12 combos KK - 12 combos QQ - 12 combos JJ - 3 combos TT - 3 combos 99 - 12 combos 57 > 48 ; I'm not trying to make a point here, as these numbers don't prove much. I understand that u were trying to show that we are unsure of what his range is and also what he leads out with, as I agree. But given the likelihood of being 3bet after he leads is relatively high, leaning me towards a call.
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#77
04-02-2006, 05:29 PM
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Re: JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey
IMO the sb will be 3-betting more than 50% of the time. Most will not bet into a field this large with overcards and it makes no sense not to 3bet with a pp. Added to that is increased implied odds. So I think calling is significantly better than raising.
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#78
04-02-2006, 06:08 PM
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Re: JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey
I call.
What I dont understand in the logic is why everyone thinks if you raise on the flop you are assuming you will be getting a free card on the turn? Yea, it will happen a fair amount of the time. I feel you guys are banking on it way too much. Remember this is also 5-10? not the 20-40, 30-60 that some of you are very accustomed to.
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#79
04-02-2006, 07:03 PM
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Re: JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey
whatever you do, don't fold, duh.
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