Being told "professional poker doesn't contribute to society."

[borisp]

Everyone who has responded to this thread (myself included) should consider themselves maximally ignorant. If nothing else is true, it is most certain that posting here is unproductive.

[Kevin Browne]

if you were in corporate America what would you be contributing there?? I use to work in audit for KPMG for 3 years, all i was doing was making my partners RICH!! at least now I can try to make myself some money.

[PrimogenitoX]

Do you believe in capitalism? If you believe in capitalism; you believe in the invisible hand theory, and if you believe in the invisible hand theory; then being a professional poker player is ultimately productive.

[Dima2000123]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you believe in capitalism? If you believe in capitalism; you believe in the invisible hand theory, and if you believe in the invisible hand theory; then being a professional poker player is ultimately productive.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't believe in the invisible hand, and no person educated in economics should believe in the invisible hand theory. What every educated person should do is understand the invisible hand theory. They should understand what makes invisible hand work when it does work, and what makes it fail to work when it fails to work.

What makes invisible hand fail to work are the externalities. If I produce something that enriches me by $1,000, but in the process I inflict $2,000 worth of damage to the environment, then I'm not being productive. I'm actually being destructive, I'm leaving society $1,000 poorer by my activities, and yet the invisible hand doesn't stop me. I get my profit, and I don't care that other people have to pony up $2,000 to clean up after me. That $2,000 is the externality.

Invisible hand works only when there are no externalities. Poker players are obviously inflicting an externality during the course of their work, their win comes directly from somebody else's loss. Therefore, invisible hand doesn't work, and you can stop invoking it in a belief that it magically proves your point with no effort required on your part.

[jellesi]

Very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it Lyric. It's about time stuff like this comes up to the surface regarding the 'profession' poker!

I bet most of the guys playing poker for a living just whipe their thoughts of guilt under their mental carpet. If they are enough in tune with themselves to feel any at all. And yes, you should most probably feel a bit guilty since you in no way at all contribute to make the world a better place. And ultimately, I'm sure that's what we all would like to do if we dig deep inside.

Someone once compared a professional poker player to a drug dealer and to be honest, I don't think he was that far off. It went something like poker players sell a certain rush, some sort of dream of a better place for the losing player for a while, and then finally the 'pro' ends up with most of his money and the loser leaves feeling empty, discouraged and not feeling good about his losses. Sort of what you feel after doing some extacy, coke or another drug. Obviously not the same feeling but you get the point.

Poker players saying they contribute by spending more money are probably never in their lives going to get it anyway. And the guys saying they contribute by paying taxes I would refer to a former speaker comparing it to pay taxes from stealing. Poker is just an 'honest' form of stealing.

Then there are the guys like Barry G giving of his winnings to charity. Boy, imagine the guilt he feels inside for doing what he does. Making loads of money from other peoples misery is essentially what you do when playing poker for big money. And your plate is not going to be clean for giving a fraction of it to charity. Karma.
If anyone could argue against this, please do because I would be very pleased in learning such so that I could get my own weights of my shoulders.

I, for one, am not proud when saying I'm a professional poker player. But I just can't see a way out of it as long as I'm making the kind of money I do. Guilt or no guilt. I'm in awe to you people who actually feel you are doing something good or productive, but wow, you are experts at fooling yourselves!

P.S Stinkypete, how come you still play feeling the way about this that you seem to do?
And Raptor, are you some kind of hero for paying 44% of $2M yearly or whatever it is you make? Are you looking for a pat on the shoulder from fellow gamblers? Just think again and of the people you won that money from. Who is paying, them or you? Maybe, just maybe, you will wake up a little.

Peace out
/
J

[homeboy604]

[ QUOTE ]


Someone once compared a professional poker player to a drug dealer and to be honest, I don't think he was that far off. It went something like poker players sell a certain rush, some sort of dream of a better place for the losing player for a while, and then finally the 'pro' ends up with most of his money and the loser leaves feeling empty, discouraged and not feeling good about his losses. Sort of what you feel after doing some extacy, coke or another drug. Obviously not the same feeling but you get the point.


[/ QUOTE ]

its not at all the same.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
P.S Stinkypete, how come you still play feeling the way about this that you seem to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't have a problem with playing poker. i don't have a problem taking other players' money - the fish would lose it all to the other pros or to the rake anyway. really i'm just taking from the other pros by reducing their expectation.

i like money, and the fact that i contribute very little to society isn't really enough to make me go do something productive instead. if i'm going to do something productive, it will likely be in a situation where i'm getting paid well to do it. but i am still in school and i hope to do something productive one day. if i don't, it won't really bother me.

as for the stuff about outlawing gambling - i think society would probably be better off if gambling on games of chance were outlawed. but if i were voting on that bill, i would vote against it, because i'm greedy and i like money.

[bigbb33]

[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it Lyric. It's about time stuff like this comes up to the surface regarding the 'profession' poker!

I bet most of the guys playing poker for a living just whipe their thoughts of guilt under their mental carpet. If they are enough in tune with themselves to feel any at all. And yes, you should most probably feel a bit guilty since you in no way at all contribute to make the world a better place. And ultimately, I'm sure that's what we all would like to do if we dig deep inside.

Someone once compared a professional poker player to a drug dealer and to be honest, I don't think he was that far off. It went something like poker players sell a certain rush, some sort of dream of a better place for the losing player for a while, and then finally the 'pro' ends up with most of his money and the loser leaves feeling empty, discouraged and not feeling good about his losses. Sort of what you feel after doing some extacy, coke or another drug. Obviously not the same feeling but you get the point.

Poker players saying they contribute by spending more money are probably never in their lives going to get it anyway. And the guys saying they contribute by paying taxes I would refer to a former speaker comparing it to pay taxes from stealing. Poker is just an 'honest' form of stealing.

Then there are the guys like Barry G giving of his winnings to charity. Boy, imagine the guilt he feels inside for doing what he does. Making loads of money from other peoples misery is essentially what you do when playing poker for big money. And your plate is not going to be clean for giving a fraction of it to charity. Karma.
If anyone could argue against this, please do because I would be very pleased in learning such so that I could get my own weights of my shoulders.

I, for one, am not proud when saying I'm a professional poker player. But I just can't see a way out of it as long as I'm making the kind of money I do. Guilt or no guilt. I'm in awe to you people who actually feel you are doing something good or productive, but wow, you are experts at fooling yourselves!

P.S Stinkypete, how come you still play feeling the way about this that you seem to do?
And Raptor, are you some kind of hero for paying 44% of $2M yearly or whatever it is you make? Are you looking for a pat on the shoulder from fellow gamblers? Just think again and of the people you won that money from. Who is paying, them or you? Maybe, just maybe, you will wake up a little.

Peace out
/
J

[/ QUOTE ]

Until society wants to give me all the material possessions, food, etc I want for free, I don't give a [censored]. But as long as my computer costs money, rent isn't free, and I have to pay for food, I'm not going to make it a priority to 'contribute to society' in the act of making money. I'm going to make getting money my priority. So personally, I don't give a [censored] what you or anyone else thinks.

Not that you are higher or mightier (if you aren't a poker pro) anyway. You think the trashman does my trash because he wants to contribute to society? [censored] that, he collects the trash because it's highest paying job he could get with his skillset and history. Same for the bank clerks and grocery managers. The reason other people bring up the 'contribution to society' is because they are jealous and can't stand the fact that I/you make so much money 'easily'.

And I don't give a [censored].

[RiverPlay]

[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it Lyric. It's about time stuff like this comes up to the surface regarding the 'profession' poker!

I bet most of the guys playing poker for a living just whipe their thoughts of guilt under their mental carpet. If they are enough in tune with themselves to feel any at all. And yes, you should most probably feel a bit guilty since you in no way at all contribute to make the world a better place. And ultimately, I'm sure that's what we all would like to do if we dig deep inside.

Someone once compared a professional poker player to a drug dealer and to be honest, I don't think he was that far off. It went something like poker players sell a certain rush, some sort of dream of a better place for the losing player for a while, and then finally the 'pro' ends up with most of his money and the loser leaves feeling empty, discouraged and not feeling good about his losses. Sort of what you feel after doing some extacy, coke or another drug. Obviously not the same feeling but you get the point.

Poker players saying they contribute by spending more money are probably never in their lives going to get it anyway. And the guys saying they contribute by paying taxes I would refer to a former speaker comparing it to pay taxes from stealing. Poker is just an 'honest' form of stealing.

Then there are the guys like Barry G giving of his winnings to charity. Boy, imagine the guilt he feels inside for doing what he does. Making loads of money from other peoples misery is essentially what you do when playing poker for big money. And your plate is not going to be clean for giving a fraction of it to charity. Karma.
If anyone could argue against this, please do because I would be very pleased in learning such so that I could get my own weights of my shoulders.

I, for one, am not proud when saying I'm a professional poker player. But I just can't see a way out of it as long as I'm making the kind of money I do. Guilt or no guilt. I'm in awe to you people who actually feel you are doing something good or productive, but wow, you are experts at fooling yourselves!

P.S Stinkypete, how come you still play feeling the way about this that you seem to do?
And Raptor, are you some kind of hero for paying 44% of $2M yearly or whatever it is you make? Are you looking for a pat on the shoulder from fellow gamblers? Just think again and of the people you won that money from. Who is paying, them or you? Maybe, just maybe, you will wake up a little.

Peace out
/
J

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your claim is kind off sick. In this world is very hard to make profit without taking it from others. I think that gambling is in our very nature and it's better to gamble at a game than trying to get that feeling at other pesonal areas, so true this is that alomst every poker player can tell about how they learned frim the game to an exent that it can by applied to lots of things, some loose money doing it. We all loose money buying all this stuff society says we need, and thats a lot more sick than playing a gambling game the same way the did over the ages.

Barry G. is an example about how you use your money is much more important than how u make it in terms of the impact it has in society, when money comes from an honest source (like it is earning it at a table with a clear set of rules). The poker economy is very wealthy and he gives to impoverished people, a HUGE part of his winnings not because he finds himself guilty, but because he understands that he didnt came to these world just to acumulate wealth.
He doesn't makes misery by playing poker and it's simple logic, he takes from the wealthy people thats rewarded by society and gives to the people that's poor because there is an evil system thats very "productive", but doesn't think like him, and it's a lot more likely to produce misery than poker.

WTF are you doing playing poker while thinking like this???

Either think a way to make the money you are earning usefull for others, dedicate the free time that playing poker gives to some other thing (it doesn't have to be charity, just something you think is good, that creates joy in the world), or just change your way to make a living. I live in the third world and if I ever make more than 100K a year playing poker im sure i will help people a lot more than I would having the former job I had.

cheers

[AKA Squared]

[ QUOTE ]
I, for one, am not proud when saying I'm a professional poker player. But I just can't see a way out of it as long as I'm making the kind of money I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that makes you a whore.