Ahmadinejad Ground Zero request

[Adebisi]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the risk of terrorists denotating a nuclear bomb are extremely slim. To all those who believe the risk is real, look into how much a nuclear bomb costs to create. When the United States built the reactors to make the material for the first three bombs, 50,000 people were employed to build the reactors in Washington state. Who knows how many were employed at Los Alamos and other sites? Take the extreme costs a bomb's creator faces, and then add in the extreme risk of reprisal said creator faces when it's determined he supplied the bomb. It's rather apparent that saying Iran or Lil'Kim are going to give a bomb to terrorists is propaganda.


[/ QUOTE ]

Quick hijack:

It doesn't really get talked about much, but I think the biggest terrorist/nuclear threat is Russia. My understanding is that the Russian Mob basically controls the country and there's no shortage corrupt politicians/generals/bureaucrats/etc. IMO the most likely way for terrorists to obtain a nuclear weapon would be buying one from Russia, not building one themselves.

Pakistan is probably a major threat here too. They already have the nukes, there are a lot of fundamentalists in the population, and the government appears to be somewhat unstable.

[anatta]

When did we become such wimps? I for one am willing to die for my freedoms, I ready to die anyways, so why the [censored] not.

"The nation's top spy told Congress on Thursday that the public debate over the Bush administration's controversial warrantless wiretapping program would lead to American deaths by revealing sensitive surveillance methods to potential terrorists"

First of all its bull [censored], nobody is going to die from open debate, just like nobody is going to die if Congress debates the War, and nobody is going to die if some crazy guy goes to Ground Zero.

But if someone does die, well that's the price we pay for freedom. Since when did Americans become afraid to die for freedom?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Since when did Americans become afraid to die for freedom?

[/ QUOTE ]

the 21st century. I think many of us have come to the conclusion that I'd rather be alive in a communist nation than be dead while fighting for someone else's freedom. The lack of freedom sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as being dead. I guess I value life. To my knowledge all the members of my family in the military feel the same way, its their job and they serve proudly but nobody wants to die to support freedom.

[blufish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since when did Americans become afraid to die for freedom?

[/ QUOTE ]

the 21st century. I think many of us have come to the conclusion that I'd rather be alive in a communist nation than be dead while fighting for someone else's freedom. The lack of freedom sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as being dead. I guess I value life. To my knowledge all the members of my family in the military feel the same way, its their job and they serve proudly but nobody wants to die to support freedom.

[/ QUOTE ]

where do you live in the states?

you say many people subscribe to the above view. where do you get this from?? i don't know any. not one. zero. people like you, i only seem to encounter on internet forums, or see arguing on t.v. or read about on somebody's political blog. not in the real world.

yet you seem to know "many".

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since when did Americans become afraid to die for freedom?

[/ QUOTE ]

the 21st century. I think many of us have come to the conclusion that I'd rather be alive in a communist nation than be dead while fighting for someone else's freedom. The lack of freedom sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as being dead. I guess I value life. To my knowledge all the members of my family in the military feel the same way, its their job and they serve proudly but nobody wants to die to support freedom.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most modern Americans have never experienced a state of being truly unfree or enslaved.

Instead of fighting for someone else's freedom, what if it came down to fighting for your own?

You could take your chances of possibly dying while fighting for your freedom, or not fighting and being enslaved or at minimum being turned into a 2nd-class citizen with a low standard of living and greatly abridged civil rights. Which choice do you think you'd lean towards? Let's also stiplulate the following:

-that you would estimate that by fighting you'd have a 50% chance of your side winning and that you personally would have 50% chance of being killed in combat. If you choose to fight and your side ends up losing you will be hanged.

-If you choose not to fight you would automatically be relegated to 2nd-class citizenship as above with a low standard of living and greatly abridged civil rights. If you choose not to fight and your side loses you would be enslaved rather than killed. If you choose not to fight you won't be killed except by accidental death (low chance).

edit 1 Summary: if you choose to fight you will have a net 75% chance of dying and a 25% chance of living in freedom. If you choose not to fight you will have a 100% certainty of one of the following: (50%) living as a poor 2nd-class citizen with greatly abrogated civil rights, or (50%) chance of being enslaved (if your side loses). You also have an extremely slightly better chance of your side winning if you do choose to fight, and there is also an extremely low chance you will be killed by accident if you choose not to fight.

edit 2: (and if you choose not to fight and your side wins you would be freed after being relegated to poor 2nd-class status during the war. The war might last a long time.)

Sorry it sounds so complicated with all the edits and all, but the example really isn't too hard to picture once you understand it. I'm running out of editing time so I will just let it stand. Thanks for reading.

Your likely choice, and thoughts?

[blufish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since when did Americans become afraid to die for freedom?

[/ QUOTE ]

the 21st century. I think many of us have come to the conclusion that I'd rather be alive in a communist nation than be dead while fighting for someone else's freedom. The lack of freedom sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as being dead. I guess I value life. To my knowledge all the members of my family in the military feel the same way, its their job and they serve proudly but nobody wants to die to support freedom.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most modern Americans have never experienced a state of being truly unfree or enslaved.

Instead of fighting for someone else's freedom, what if it came down to fighting for your own?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah. that is one of the inconsistencies of his prior statement. and the only question worth anwswering.

don't know why you added all the rest of the "hypos" to your post.

i still want to know where he is from, what he does, how old?

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since when did Americans become afraid to die for freedom?

[/ QUOTE ]

the 21st century. I think many of us have come to the conclusion that I'd rather be alive in a communist nation than be dead while fighting for someone else's freedom. The lack of freedom sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as being dead. I guess I value life. To my knowledge all the members of my family in the military feel the same way, its their job and they serve proudly but nobody wants to die to support freedom.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most modern Americans have never experienced a state of being truly unfree or enslaved.

Instead of fighting for someone else's freedom, what if it came down to fighting for your own?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah. that is one of the inconsistencies of his prior statement. and the only question worth anwswering.

don't know why you added all the rest of the "hypos" to your post.

i still want to know where he is from, what he does, how old?

[/ QUOTE ]

I stipulated the hypotheticals because poker players like to compare EV's [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

There might be more to this than pure EV though [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

For those not wishing to follow the detailed hypothetical stipulations I guess just the above question is fine [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[blufish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since when did Americans become afraid to die for freedom?

[/ QUOTE ]

the 21st century. I think many of us have come to the conclusion that I'd rather be alive in a communist nation than be dead while fighting for someone else's freedom. The lack of freedom sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as being dead. I guess I value life. To my knowledge all the members of my family in the military feel the same way, its their job and they serve proudly but nobody wants to die to support freedom.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most modern Americans have never experienced a state of being truly unfree or enslaved.

Instead of fighting for someone else's freedom, what if it came down to fighting for your own?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah. that is one of the inconsistencies of his prior statement. and the only question worth anwswering.

don't know why you added all the rest of the "hypos" to your post.

i still want to know where he is from, what he does, how old?

[/ QUOTE ]

I stipulated the hypotheticals because poker players like to compare EV's [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

There might be more to this than pure EV though [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

For those not wishing to follow the detailed hypothetical stipulations I guess just the above question is fine [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

i gotcha. my bad.

[warrantofice]

As a canadian I say

1. Defer Ahmadinejad's visit to the WTC. Tell him you are holding a large ceremony on X date and you would be honoured for him to come. That way you are still in control of the situation, you don't allow him immediate access but you also keep open friendly channels. If this looks like it could become a really big issue offer to invite other various leaders from neighboring Middle East countries... although this could look worse, a kinda look at what you people did ceremony that aside.

Ahmadinejad don't know a thing about him, all this stuff written in this forum is probably complete [censored] and i wouldn't listen to a word of it. Calling him the next Hitler...common there a probably a 1000 people worse than him wandering around...and if thats true it means Hitler wasn't the worst person in the world, which we all know is factually true.

anyways I will say that the US does need Iran to help in Iraq. So its gotta be a little nice to them. And they should probably think a little bit about handling this matter, not being idiots cause bungling up these relatively simple situations really makes some things harder down the road.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
When did we become such wimps? I for one am willing to die for my freedoms, I ready to die anyways, so why the [censored] not.

"The nation's top spy told Congress on Thursday that the public debate over the Bush administration's controversial warrantless wiretapping program would lead to American deaths by revealing sensitive surveillance methods to potential terrorists"

First of all its bull [censored], nobody is going to die from open debate, just like nobody is going to die if Congress debates the War, and nobody is going to die if some crazy guy goes to Ground Zero.

But if someone does die, well that's the price we pay for freedom. Since when did Americans become afraid to die for freedom?

[/ QUOTE ]

We didn't, we just realized that dying for the government isn't dying for freedom. Usually, it's exactly the opposite.