|
|
#72
05-28-2007, 12:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Reject the \'Anarchist\' Voters
[ QUOTE ]
How does this contradict what I said? If they *choose* to *not* interact, then nobodys morality is violated. You then pull some example where one party chooses TO interact. This can't possibly refute what you quoted. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I thought we were still talking in the following context: Person A has a morality where it is moral for him to interact with you without your consent. Person B has a morality where that is not moral. I thought our discussion around "choosing not to interact" was based on your assertion that this is one of the possible solutions to this conflict between moralites. [ QUOTE ] Like I said, the only other alternative, when there isn't agreement, is for force to be used to impose upon the other party. [/ QUOTE ] Right. I guess I am saying that them "choosing not to interact" because Person A is afraid of a violent defense on Person B's part is still a forceful trumping of Person A's morality. [ QUOTE ] If party A initiates force upon an unwilling party, he has no legitimate expectation that the unwilling party will not return force - even if his personal morality says he's justified. [/ QUOTE ] You're throwing around "legitimate" again like it's a some universal theme. Many statists expect you to pay taxes because they think it's your moral obligation. Just because you think it's an illegitimate expectation doesn't make it illegitimate. 
|
|
#73
05-28-2007, 01:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Reject the \'Anarchist\' Voters
[ QUOTE ]
Many statists expect you to pay taxes because they think it's your moral obligation. [/ QUOTE ] I personally don't know any statists, at least on this board, who would advocate that paying taxes to a govt is a question of morality. I don't recall the "Thou shalt pay taxes" argument ever being uttered.
|
|
#74
05-28-2007, 01:11 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Reject the \'Anarchist\' Voters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] All it does is turn people away from some quality ideas that anarchists have. [/ QUOTE ] No doubt, treating positions without respect (when they haven't been proven wrong) reeks of fear that they may be right. Also, it would seem to show that you have little faith in your own beliefs. That said, you'd be kidding yourself it you didn't think that ACers here and on the interwebs didn't by and large turn many off because of their general attitude. It's a mean game, this politics. Cody [/ QUOTE ] The attitude of most statists certainly turns *me* off. [/ QUOTE ] No question, I like to think I try and behave well in any case. I am, after all, only responsible for myself. Cody
|
|
#75
05-28-2007, 01:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Reject the \'Anarchist\' Voters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Many statists expect you to pay taxes because they think it's your moral obligation. [/ QUOTE ] I personally don't know any statists, at least on this board, who would advocate that paying taxes to a govt is a question of morality. I don't recall the "Thou shalt pay taxes" argument ever being uttered. [/ QUOTE ] They don't say that paying to the government is a moral issue, but they will say that paying to "the common cause" because of "social contracts" and so forth are moral issues. They may not use the word "moral", but they don't use language like "because the government has the biggest guns" either.
|
|
#76
05-28-2007, 01:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Reject the \'Anarchist\' Voters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Many statists expect you to pay taxes because they think it's your moral obligation. [/ QUOTE ] I personally don't know any statists, at least on this board, who would advocate that paying taxes to a govt is a question of morality. I don't recall the "Thou shalt pay taxes" argument ever being uttered. [/ QUOTE ] They don't say that paying to the government is a moral issue, but they will say that paying to "the common cause" because of "social contracts" and so forth are moral issues. They may not use the word "moral", but they don't use language like "because the government has the biggest guns" either. [/ QUOTE ] A social contract argument is not a moral argument.
|
|
#77
05-28-2007, 01:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Reject the \'Anarchist\' Voters
Then what is it? Surely not a legal argument.
|
|
#78
05-28-2007, 02:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Reject the \'Anarchist\' Voters
[ QUOTE ]
Then what is it? Surely not a legal argument. [/ QUOTE ] One interpretation: If the territory of the United States is jointly owned by the people, then the people can levy taxes to administer functions over that territory. You are not morally obligated to pay those taxes, you are obligated by being a citizen of the territory. You are free to renounce that citizenship at any time you choose and vacate the territory. Or as a citizen, you are free to advocate change to how the territory is administered through voting, info exchange, assembly, running for office, or a vast array of other means. If those in charge of administration have so overstepped their bounds that there is no means of restoring administration to its agreed upon roles, then more seriuous action may be required such as overthrow of the administration. This is what I believe to be the essence of a social contract. It requires no appeal to "morality".
|
|
#79
05-28-2007, 02:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Reject the \'Anarchist\' Voters
If I'm not morally obligated then what obligates me? The other guy's bigger guns or something else?
|
|
#80
05-28-2007, 02:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Reject the \'Anarchist\' Voters
[ QUOTE ]
If I'm not morally obligated then what obligates me? The other guy's bigger guns or something else? [/ QUOTE ] You are living on the territory jointly owned by the people of the US. You are obligated to share the cost of administration of this territory. If you do not want to, then you can leave or try to buy your own sovereign territory and administer it yourself. There is nothing stopping you from making an offer to have the people cede you territory or finding another territory to live on.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
