Low stake "pros" ???

[JJH3984]

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How many real pros drink at the table? That's poor discipline and I know of a couple of otherwise good players that went broke because they couldn't handle their alcohol.

[/ QUOTE ]I drink nearly everytime I play live and have gotten hammered quite a few times. I honestly don't think it makes me play any worse.

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Right. and driving drunk doesn't make you drive worse.

As to the argument between Hip and whoever:

Hip also plays in Detroit where the rake is 5+1 (or is it 6+1?) which probably effects his winrate substantially.

Also he probably isn't that much better than you. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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How do you possibly equate what I said to alcohol not affecting your motor skills?

I honestly think that, if anything, I play BETTER when drinking because I'm having more fun and can be more patient. Poker isn't that difficult, especially lower stakes games.

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Sigh... I'm just saying that people think they are good at things when they are under the influence when they really aren't. I doubt you play better drunk. Intoxication effects your decision making process adversly. Poker is a game of decision making. You do the math. Just don't do when you're drunk.

[TheHip41]

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How many real pros drink at the table? That's poor discipline and I know of a couple of otherwise good players that went broke because they couldn't handle their alcohol.

[/ QUOTE ]I drink nearly everytime I play live and have gotten hammered quite a few times. I honestly don't think it makes me play any worse.

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Right. and driving drunk doesn't make you drive worse.

As to the argument between Hip and whoever:

Hip also plays in Detroit where the rake is 5+1 (or is it 6+1?) which probably effects his winrate substantially.

Also he probably isn't that much better than you. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Yes, I put that into consideration, the extra rake and all. But, I go to MCC to have fun and hang out with my buddies, not to make a living.

If I'm not a better player, I am probably better at making life decisions, seeing as I'm not going to try to make a living playing 5-10 in a casino anytime soon [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Also, if you are getting 33-38 hands per hour in at 3-6, that means your opponents are probably playing better than you think, and they fold alot PF, and there aren't 8 way raised pots.

I still think it's impossible for someone to average 4+BB/100 hands over a large, large sample, say 250K hands.

And really, if you can beat 5-10 live for 4BB+/100, then for the love of god buy a computer and stomp the SSSH games and earn 5 times as much.

[RR]

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I thought it was pretty commonly accepted, even in a few 2p2 books that it is extremely tough to make over 1bb/hour in live, low limit games, and 1.5 is damn near impossible?

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I don't have the figures in front of me to know the exact number of hours but in 98 and 99 prior to the MGM closing its poker room I played about 40 hours a week there and beat the 4-8 game for $15/hr (the actual number was either just over or just below $15). This game was sometimes played with a half kill to 6-12, but it was also played with blinds half the normal size.

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so the blinds were 1/2 all the time? or are you saying the game, when it was killed, stayed at the normal 2$, 4$ blinds?

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The blinds were $1 and $2 and the kill posted a $3 blind to play $6-$12. This used to be a very common structure in Las Vegas. Back then the only place with the correct sized blinds was Mirage and then Bellagio.

[guids]

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I thought it was pretty commonly accepted, even in a few 2p2 books that it is extremely tough to make over 1bb/hour in live, low limit games, and 1.5 is damn near impossible?

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I don't have the figures in front of me to know the exact number of hours but in 98 and 99 prior to the MGM closing its poker room I played about 40 hours a week there and beat the 4-8 game for $15/hr (the actual number was either just over or just below $15). This game was sometimes played with a half kill to 6-12, but it was also played with blinds half the normal size.

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so the blinds were 1/2 all the time? or are you saying the game, when it was killed, stayed at the normal 2$, 4$ blinds?

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The blinds were $1 and $2 and the kill posted a $3 blind to play $6-$12. This used to be a very common structure in Las Vegas. Back then the only place with the correct sized blinds was Mirage and then Bellagio.

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Im a little confused still. Were the blinds 1/2 ALL the time, or just when it was a kill hand?

[RR]

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I thought it was pretty commonly accepted, even in a few 2p2 books that it is extremely tough to make over 1bb/hour in live, low limit games, and 1.5 is damn near impossible?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have the figures in front of me to know the exact number of hours but in 98 and 99 prior to the MGM closing its poker room I played about 40 hours a week there and beat the 4-8 game for $15/hr (the actual number was either just over or just below $15). This game was sometimes played with a half kill to 6-12, but it was also played with blinds half the normal size.

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so the blinds were 1/2 all the time? or are you saying the game, when it was killed, stayed at the normal 2$, 4$ blinds?

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The blinds were $1 and $2 and the kill posted a $3 blind to play $6-$12. This used to be a very common structure in Las Vegas. Back then the only place with the correct sized blinds was Mirage and then Bellagio.

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Im a little confused still. Were the blinds 1/2 ALL the time, or just when it was a kill hand?

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The blinds were $1 and $2. A kill blind ($3 in this game) is posted when a player triggers the kill (2 pots in a row in this game). Typically the blinds do not change for a kill pot (anywhere that I am aware of) there is simply a third blind posted by the killer.

[guids]

Ok, see I wasnt sure, thats why I asked. for some odd reason I thought you meant the blinds were 2/4, except during a killed pot, than they dropped to 1/2. But thats why your numbers were so high imo, at least bb/hr, its because back then the blinds were 1/2, and nowadays they are 2/4.

[RR]

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Ok, see I wasnt sure, thats why I asked. for some odd reason I thought you meant the blinds were 2/4, except during a killed pot, than they dropped to 1/2. But thats why your numbers were so high imo, at least bb/hr, its because back then the blinds were 1/2, and nowadays they are 2/4.

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I would expect the half sized blinds to make win rates lower, not higher. A lot less money is in the pot when it is $2 to call instead of $4 to call. I think this sort of structure can still be found in Las Vegas (I am guessing the Orleans and at least some of the Stations still use this structure, it is a favorite of the local nits).

[guids]

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Ok, see I wasnt sure, thats why I asked. for some odd reason I thought you meant the blinds were 2/4, except during a killed pot, than they dropped to 1/2. But thats why your numbers were so high imo, at least bb/hr, its because back then the blinds were 1/2, and nowadays they are 2/4.

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I would expect the half sized blinds to make win rates lower, not higher. A lot less money is in the pot when it is $2 to call instead of $4 to call. I think this sort of structure can still be found in Las Vegas (I am guessing the Orleans and at least some of the Stations still use this structure, it is a favorite of the local nits).

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the good player, wants to play as many hands as possible preflop, the worse you are, the tighter you should play preflop, so you dont put yourself in really marginal positions postflop, so you should play less hands. With a 1/2 blind 4-8 game, mathematically, you are right to loosen up preflop compared to a game where the blinds would be 2/4. More hands you play = more money. That might account for the diff.

[RR]

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Ok, see I wasnt sure, thats why I asked. for some odd reason I thought you meant the blinds were 2/4, except during a killed pot, than they dropped to 1/2. But thats why your numbers were so high imo, at least bb/hr, its because back then the blinds were 1/2, and nowadays they are 2/4.

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I would expect the half sized blinds to make win rates lower, not higher. A lot less money is in the pot when it is $2 to call instead of $4 to call. I think this sort of structure can still be found in Las Vegas (I am guessing the Orleans and at least some of the Stations still use this structure, it is a favorite of the local nits).

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the good player, wants to play as many hands as possible preflop, the worse you are, the tighter you should play preflop, so you dont put yourself in really marginal positions postflop, so you should play less hands. With a 1/2 blind 4-8 game, mathematically, you are right to loosen up preflop compared to a game where the blinds would be 2/4. More hands you play = more money. That might account for the diff.

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Maybe. It is a very different game as the implied odds are huge. These games were a little weird becasue they were favored by players that are the easiest to pick up pots from, but the value of picking up a pot was greatly diminished.

[Farfenugen]

I am reading this thread with a lot of interest.

Recently, a friend of mine said he is moving to Vegas to take a shot at being a pro after he graduates in May. He needs a roomate and asked if I would go with him. I am also graduating in May with a worthless degree and a poor GPA. I was going to go back to school and get another degree but I am seriously giving his offer some thought.

I have always been very different than other people and I have never really been motivated by anything other than competition. I have great difficulty studying anything for my classes but I read poker books regularly and work on my game constantly. It was the same way in highschool. I did enough to get by and then I hit the weight room or watched film. Thats what motivates me. I have been fighting myself my entire life doing things the conventional way. I went to college because my parents said that was what I was supposed to do.

As bav mentioned all different types of people live on all different types of income. I really wouldn't have a problem living a simple lifestyle. I always have. All I need is my computer and an internet connection to be happy. I don't have a car because I really don't see spending money on them. I ride my bike around all day. People sometimes look at me funny but what do I care.

Sorry, I kinda got off track.

Anyway, I would love to hear from more people who have taken this route, success or failure. I want to make an informed decision.

Edit: One thing that hasn't been mentioned is comps. Eating free every day can save a lot of money.