Why you guys aren't crushing these Microlimit games...

[Clarkmeister]

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explain raising this flop, especially when I'm bet into by a pre-flop raiser and I don't like my kicker? I don't see this sort of play advocated in any 2+2 book.

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Sklansky talks about it in some of his essays IIRC.

[Ed Miller]

explain raising this flop, especially when I'm bet into by a pre-flop raiser and I don't like my kicker?

Ok. Here's the point. You should often avoid "easily dominated" hands before the flop, especially against a raiser. You are trying to avoid trouble, making a cautious fold WHEN THE POT IS STILL SMALL.

Once you decide to see the flop (which you DEFINITELY should with your A8s in this hand), you simply cannot play in fear of the worst. If you flop top pair, you still have a potentially dominated hand, but now THE POT IS BIG! There is nothing you can do about it at this point, you just have to hope your hand is best and protect your share of the pot by raising out opponents with weak draws.

The size of the pot dictates how you play your hand. When the pot is small, making cautious folds is often correct. When the pot is large (which it is once it is raised preflop in this case), you MUST PROTECT YOUR HAND... you have to gamble. You have too much to lose if you play cautiously.

BTW, folding in this situation is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. It is an enormous error. I'm glad you fixed that leak. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But now you have to start playing more aggressively.

[Mike Haven]

you were a 5:1 dog on the flop with 12:1 odds that is an AUTOMATIC call.

I am not arguing whether you should or should not call, but your figures are wrong, bunky.

On the flop, the odds of catching his inside straight draw were 43 to 4 or 10.75 to 1.

If he hadn't made it, he would have had odds of 42 to 4 or 10.5 to 1 of catching on the river.

I believe you are thinking that he had 5 to 1 odds of catching on either the turn or the river.

You can't use these odds unless you are all in on your flop bet and don't have to put more money in on the turn if you miss.

(You could maybe use the 5 to 1 odds if you added the flop and the turn bets together. For example, let's say there is $12 in the pot in a $1-$2. At the point of the flop bet you are getting $12 to your $1, 12 to 1, for your 10.75 to 1 draw. You could maybe say you were getting pot odds of $12 to $3, or 4 to 1 for your 5 to 1 draw, if you were absolutely certain that there would be no raises on the flop or turn bets; but this would be a risky (gambling) assumption to make, and we don't want to gamble, now, do we?)

[rjc199]

excellent.

So let me try to clarify something. I should be more aggressive with a mediocre hand when the pot is big? This helps to get long shots out and preserve the pot incase my hand is good?

Does my strategy change when it gets heads up on the river? Meaning, should I not be as aggresive if I know I'm going to get called?

[rjc199]

Ok, you sort of answered my question about what I do when it gets heads up after I fold the rest of the chasers out with a raise.

[Dids]

I think part of the issue is that the hand you described isn't really mediocre. It's not the nuts- but it could very well be the winning hand and it's got out to a better hand. .

[rjc199]

yeah, I guess you can't call top pair a mediocre hand. Mediocre would be something like 2nd pair or 3rd pair with good kicker.

[Webster]

I just want to tahank Ed Miller. About 2 months ago I folded a big hand because I new I was beat only to find I was going against 3 guys bluffing.

He yelled at me and gave me some tough love. That particular hand I looked at my outs and pot odds and folded my ONE BB. Sometimes you have to put the bet in even though you know you are beat because you never really know and it's ONE FREAKING bet.

I was pissed at his response at the time BUT - HE DA MAN!

[JTrue]

Good Post, Learned alot

[JTrue]

is that why?>