Official August Thread: General Discussion,etc

[MDMA]

[ QUOTE ]
by the way it is absolutely [censored] RIDICULOUS to say that it is my responsibility as a poker player to make skill the ultimate decider of my winrate, such that people who are more "skilled" than me will always make more money than me and it is my responsibility to accept that - is it not the most BASIC concept of poker to make plays that neutralize differences in skill and thus maximize one's own EV? the size of your stack doesn't [censored] matter, it's the same thing. your argument about the "spirit of poker" entailing that i should not go out of my way to try to neutralize the difference in skill is just simply absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

How on earth could somebody misinterpret what I wrote to such an extent they would write something like what I quoted above. Jesus, you are really dense. You honestly didn't understand one thing I wrote, that is clear given your response.

Responsibility to make sure only skill decides you winrate? HUH? How on earth did you reach THIS conclusion?

You CONSTANTLY fail to grasp that I'm saying that shortstacking is a part of online poker AS IT IS, but at the same time it SHOULDN'T be, how can you be so dense so you don't get the distinction?

Just [censored] admit you do not understand what INCOMPABILITY-issue I'm talking about, because given what you write, it seems rather obvious that you don't. I am not surprised.

[Jeffmet3]

just a check, twin-caracas is supposed to be really bad right?

and its the same guy on ftp?

[ipokeder]

if that is indeed your claim then you must also realize that you are forfeiting any right to criticize imsakidd in the same breath, which is why i guess you would say that i "misinterpreted" what you were saying.

if shortstacking is a part of online poker that "shouldn't" be, the onus falls not upon imsakidd but upon some nameless powers that be. you're trying to construct a case against shortstacking but all that you can really defend of the garble you posted earlier was that "shortstacking was not supposed to work," which does not give you the right to criticize imsakidd. either you respond to the rest of my rebuttal or you resign yourself to that fact.

and yes, i did understand what you wrote and i was taking one of your implications to its logical end (that shortstacking is bad because it requires no skill and bereaves more skilled fullstacked players of their edge). if i misconstrued this point please clarify because that's what i got.

[NOSUP4U]

I don't think anyone should be able to move in on me pf and negate my huge post flop advantage. Thats not what good deep stacked poker was meant to be!

Mark

[ImsaKidd]

Ipokeder you will never get respect for trying to defend me. I do appreciate that someone who hates me with such a burning passion keeps an open mind about it.

I'm not saying i'm as good or better than you guys, in fact I'm not sure I could beat 400nl fullstacked. When i played 100bb I absolutely hated the game, I could barely continue a session after losing a stack or 2 (think worse than john kane).

So I started shortstacking in March/April, dinking around with math and situations and whatnot. It was only supposed to be a fun little experiment for a month or 2 and it has grown to this.

Hate me, flame me, berate me. I'm just trying to make money with the skillset I have. I think my skills make me a better shortstacker than fullstacker.

I know I piss a lot of you off and i'm sorry for that (well, for some of you). Hopefully some of you can respect me as a fellow poker player and (GASP) human being rather than treating me like a pile of [censored] your dog left on the carpet. I'm sure some of you (MDMA) will treat me like that anyway, and I will obviously have to deal with that.

[TheWorstPlayer]

right - because there is nothing wrong with exploiting something which is poorly designed as long as it falls within all technicalities. oh wait...yes there is. if what you are doing would ruin everything for everyone if they all did it, then you are being an [censored], free-riding, leech on the community and you should stop doing it. get a [censored] life short-stackers. learn how to play poker. everyone else on here does it just fine, you probably could, too.

edit: imsa, have you ever heard of "The Tragedy of the Commons"? If you haven't, I suggest you look it up.

[Jeffmet3]

imsa its cool

i don't like shortstackers at my games, but i can respect you playing that game and pushing an edge that you have. would i prefer you didnt, yes? If the sites raised it to 40bb minimum we wouldnt have this problem.

but as is, pressure the sites not the players, people can play as they please.

and im assuming most people feel this way

edit: TWP, this has nothing to do with tragedy of the commons. i love applying that concept and its relevant in real life, but here is a huge stretch

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
imsa, have you ever heard of "The Tragedy of the Commons"? If you haven't, I suggest you look it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I havent read it.

I'm going to guess it boils down to: "IMSAKIDD, you suck at poker and shouldn't shortstack".

[ipokeder]

what the [censored], the argument that shortstacking ruins poker for other people at the table is just [censored] ridiculous. IF YOU ARE A GOOD POKER PLAYER YOU WILL RUIN THE GAME FOR OTHER PEOPLE AT THE TABLE PERIOD. THAT IS HOW POKER WORKS.

if we were running a sunday school it would be different, but poker is a game where people take advantage of each other in order to take each others' money. making arbitrary rules and social stigmas within a poker community is all good and fine, but trying to invoke some kind of divine commandment that shortstacking is inherently bad is indefensible.

seriously, would you expect somebody to be a losing 400NL player rather than make a decent living as a shortstacker out of respect for an internet community? would you? did you start playing poker in the first place to do well to others in a poker community?

unless one of you out there is playing for charity you need to suck it up and realize that shortstacking is a perfectly legitimate way to play

edit: oh, and tragedy of commons : pot kettle black etc

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
imsa, have you ever heard of "The Tragedy of the Commons"? If you haven't, I suggest you look it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I havent read it.

I'm going to guess it boils down to: "IMSAKIDD, you suck at poker and shouldn't shortstack".

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it doesn't. I suggest you look it up. It boils down to: If you can do something, at many other people's expense, but if everyone did it, then nobody would be able to do it, then you shouldn't do it. So you can short stack. So can everyone else. You do it, and you make money. But if everyone did it, nobody would make any money (because there are no edges playing <20bb, so it is NOT analogous to ipokeder's comment about people just playing well but full-stacked). So you are basically only making money because other people are not taking advantage of the poor design that you are taking advantage of. So you are just leeching off of other people's good behaviour. So that is wrong. So you should stop.