ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[NoahSD]

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i think we should all email party and thank them and whatever and then ask them to host a 240k freeroll dedicated to ZJ and JJ

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FYP

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Well put, sir.

[ZBTHorton]

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Is it fair to ask curtains (and others) how long/how much they knew about Zee and others multi-accounting? I certainly have absolutely no idea how much curtains, N 82 50 24, etc. knew or didn't know; but both of them seemed to be aware of what was going on before the knowledge became 'public' (which is indicative of nothing; both are friendly with him, and perhaps Zee both told them recently what was happening with Party -- and it's certainly possible curtains, N 82 50 24 WERE the ones reponsible for alerting Party, whether they admit it or not; or perhaps they just heard through the rumor mill; etc. etc. etc. In other words, there's lots and lots of way they could have known what was happening with ZJ without having kept the information private for a substantial amount of time).

However, I certainly think we could call into question the ethics of those who seemed to have some level of prior knowledge (again, I have no idea how much) but *didn't* alert Party, etc.

Again, this sounds like a witch-hunt; but it's somewhat common knowledge that some of the uber-skilled players here IM each other, have lots of contact outside of 2+2, etc. -- and I don't doubt curtains et al are completely sincere when they say they disagree with what Zee has done, and that they agree it's cheating, etc. But I think it's fair to question if some posters (probably a cadre of posters, who are again all friendly) have had some level of knowledge that Zee multi-accounts but didn't alert Party. Failing to alert Party (if they have known for months, for instance) is very unethical as well, despite the inclination not to "rat out" people we are friendly with.

I'm not claiming that out-ing their friend as a cheater was ideal (again, IF they had known Zee was multi accounting), but turning a blind eye to cheating (or not alerting Party) certainly cost some players money. I certainly would have to think long and hard before I turned in a friend to Party for cheating. I'd like to think I would, but not having been in such a situation, that's easy for me to say.

Perhaps I'm way out in left field here. My apologies to all if I am (and my apologies to curtains and N 82 50 24, who I'm sure I've unfairly singled out -- but curtains had the unfortunate luck of Zee mentioning his name as someone he consulted with, and N 82 50 24 has indicated he has 'known' something).

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I agree with most of this - but I think curtains, N 82 50 24, gbmantis and the rest are going to be tainted by this unless they come clean. If they really knew about this and did nothing then I have lost all respect for them. I would personally have done something about it - but then I must be one of the few honest people left.

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I highly suggest you take back this comment. Curtains has never been accused of any wrong doing. GBMantis (I think he's an ass) has already been reported and cleared by Stars, and N82 doesn't even play big dollar tournaments.

Don't run your mouth about something you know nothing about.

[Knockwurst]

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Cmon guys.
It's nice and all that multi accounters are being punished, but there is nothing worse than being a snitch.

I have alot more respect for someone who uses multiple accounts to maximize EV, than for someone who taddles.

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Totally disagree. Yes, its morally reprehensible when someone snitches to lessen the reprecussions of their own conduct (ie. Sammy the Bull testifying after he got pinched)= rat.

When some one drops a dime to preserve the integrity of the game = hero.

[DVaut1]

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Is it fair to ask curtains (and others) how long/how much they knew about Zee and others multi-accounting? I certainly have absolutely no idea how much curtains, N 82 50 24, etc. knew or didn't know; but both of them seemed to be aware of what was going on before the knowledge became 'public' (which is indicative of nothing; both are friendly with him, and perhaps Zee both told them recently what was happening with Party -- and it's certainly possible curtains, N 82 50 24 WERE the ones reponsible for alerting Party, whether they admit it or not; or perhaps they just heard through the rumor mill; etc. etc. etc. In other words, there's lots and lots of way they could have known what was happening with ZJ without having kept the information private for a substantial amount of time).

However, I certainly think we could call into question the ethics of those who seemed to have some level of prior knowledge (again, I have no idea how much) but *didn't* alert Party, etc.

Again, this sounds like a witch-hunt; but it's somewhat common knowledge that some of the uber-skilled players here IM each other, have lots of contact outside of 2+2, etc. -- and I don't doubt curtains et al are completely sincere when they say they disagree with what Zee has done, and that they agree it's cheating, etc. But I think it's fair to question if some posters (probably a cadre of posters, who are again all friendly) have had some level of knowledge that Zee multi-accounts but didn't alert Party. Failing to alert Party (if they have known for months, for instance) is very unethical as well, despite the inclination not to "rat out" people we are friendly with.

I'm not claiming that out-ing their friend as a cheater was ideal (again, IF they had known Zee was multi accounting), but turning a blind eye to cheating (or not alerting Party) certainly cost some players money. I certainly would have to think long and hard before I turned in a friend to Party for cheating. I'd like to think I would, but not having been in such a situation, that's easy for me to say.

Perhaps I'm way out in left field here. My apologies to all if I am (and my apologies to curtains and N 82 50 24, who I'm sure I've unfairly singled out -- but curtains had the unfortunate luck of Zee mentioning his name as someone he consulted with, and N 82 50 24 has indicated he has 'known' something).

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I agree with most of this - but I think curtains, N 82 50 24, gbmantis and the rest are going to be tainted by this unless they come clean. If they really knew about this and did nothing then I have lost all respect for them. I would personally have done something about it - but then I must be one of the few honest people left.

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I highly suggest you take back this comment. Curtains has never been accused of any wrong doing. GBMantis (I think he's an ass) has already been reported and cleared by Stars, and N82 doesn't even play big dollar tournaments.

Don't run your mouth about something you know nothing about.

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I'm certainly not accusing them of cheating. I really think curtains and N82 are sincere when they say they disagree with what Zee did, and would not multi-account.

But I think silence about it was unethical, too (if they really were silent about it for a long period of time).

[Mempho]

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Is it fair to ask curtains (and others) how long/how much they knew about Zee and others multi-accounting? I certainly have absolutely no idea how much curtains, N 82 50 24, etc. knew or didn't know; but both of them seemed to be aware of what was going on before the knowledge became 'public' (which is indicative of nothing; both are friendly with him, and perhaps Zee both told them recently what was happening with Party -- and it's certainly possible curtains, N 82 50 24 WERE the ones reponsible for alerting Party, whether they admit it or not; or perhaps they just heard through the rumor mill; etc. etc. etc. In other words, there's lots and lots of way they could have known what was happening with ZJ without having kept the information private for a substantial amount of time).

However, I certainly think we could call into question the ethics of those who seemed to have some level of prior knowledge (again, I have no idea how much) but *didn't* alert Party, etc.

Again, this sounds like a witch-hunt; but it's somewhat common knowledge that some of the uber-skilled players here IM each other, have lots of contact outside of 2+2, etc. -- and I don't doubt curtains et al are completely sincere when they say they disagree with what Zee has done, and that they agree it's cheating, etc. But I think it's fair to question if some posters (probably a cadre of posters, who are again all friendly) have had some level of knowledge that Zee multi-accounts but didn't alert Party. Failing to alert Party (if they have known for months, for instance) is very unethical as well, despite the inclination not to "rat out" people we are friendly with.

I'm not claiming that out-ing their friend as a cheater was ideal (again, IF they had known Zee was multi accounting), but turning a blind eye to cheating (or not alerting Party) certainly cost some players money. I certainly would have to think long and hard before I turned in a friend to Party for cheating. I'd like to think I would, but not having been in such a situation, that's easy for me to say.

Perhaps I'm way out in left field here. My apologies to all if I am (and my apologies to curtains and N 82 50 24, who I'm sure I've unfairly singled out -- but curtains had the unfortunate luck of Zee mentioning his name as someone he consulted with, and N 82 50 24 has indicated he has 'known' something).

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I agree with most of this - but I think curtains, N 82 50 24, gbmantis and the rest are going to be tainted by this unless they come clean. If they really knew about this and did nothing then I have lost all respect for them. I would personally have done something about it - but then I must be one of the few honest people left.

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Mantis has requested that others turn him in for investigation because of this. He wants to clear his name.

[bocablkr]

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Wait until your good friend comes to you with something unethical, but less than murder. See if you immediately race off to the nearest authority to turn him in.


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What is the point of moral or ethics if you only use them when it is convenient?

[shots]

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You should have played those Kings Mike.

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This is funny on so many levels

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I'm just glad someone got it

[NoahSD]

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Is it fair to ask curtains (and others) how long/how much they knew about Zee and others multi-accounting?

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No.

[William]

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If this is legit, wow.

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It is legit, ZJ was asked to leave Party Poker. He asked me not to tell anyone and I've respected his wishes. However, now it's out in the open due to this email.

And yes, Mike O'Malley runs Party Poker.

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My guess is that Zee will get a new ip, a new computer, and open another account under a friend or relative's name and give them a small kickback for letting him play under their name. Easy enough to do.

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Probably yes, but he won't be able to qualify to any live tourneys anymore. It's going to be a very expensive experience to play live tourneys.

[bocablkr]

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Is it fair to ask curtains (and others) how long/how much they knew about Zee and others multi-accounting? I certainly have absolutely no idea how much curtains, N 82 50 24, etc. knew or didn't know; but both of them seemed to be aware of what was going on before the knowledge became 'public' (which is indicative of nothing; both are friendly with him, and perhaps Zee both told them recently what was happening with Party -- and it's certainly possible curtains, N 82 50 24 WERE the ones reponsible for alerting Party, whether they admit it or not; or perhaps they just heard through the rumor mill; etc. etc. etc. In other words, there's lots and lots of way they could have known what was happening with ZJ without having kept the information private for a substantial amount of time).

However, I certainly think we could call into question the ethics of those who seemed to have some level of prior knowledge (again, I have no idea how much) but *didn't* alert Party, etc.

Again, this sounds like a witch-hunt; but it's somewhat common knowledge that some of the uber-skilled players here IM each other, have lots of contact outside of 2+2, etc. -- and I don't doubt curtains et al are completely sincere when they say they disagree with what Zee has done, and that they agree it's cheating, etc. But I think it's fair to question if some posters (probably a cadre of posters, who are again all friendly) have had some level of knowledge that Zee multi-accounts but didn't alert Party. Failing to alert Party (if they have known for months, for instance) is very unethical as well, despite the inclination not to "rat out" people we are friendly with.

I'm not claiming that out-ing their friend as a cheater was ideal (again, IF they had known Zee was multi accounting), but turning a blind eye to cheating (or not alerting Party) certainly cost some players money. I certainly would have to think long and hard before I turned in a friend to Party for cheating. I'd like to think I would, but not having been in such a situation, that's easy for me to say.

Perhaps I'm way out in left field here. My apologies to all if I am (and my apologies to curtains and N 82 50 24, who I'm sure I've unfairly singled out -- but curtains had the unfortunate luck of Zee mentioning his name as someone he consulted with, and N 82 50 24 has indicated he has 'known' something).

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I agree with most of this - but I think curtains, N 82 50 24, gbmantis and the rest are going to be tainted by this unless they come clean. If they really knew about this and did nothing then I have lost all respect for them. I would personally have done something about it - but then I must be one of the few honest people left.

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I highly suggest you take back this comment. Curtains has never been accused of any wrong doing. GBMantis (I think he's an ass) has already been reported and cleared by Stars, and N82 doesn't even play big dollar tournaments.

Don't run your mouth about something you know nothing about.

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I'm certainly not accusing them of cheating. I really think curtains and N82 are sincere when they say they disagree with what Zee did, and would not multi-account.

But I think silence about it was unethical, too (if they really were silent about it for a long period of time).

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IF THEY KNEW AND SAID NOTHING THAT IS UNETHICAL - PERIOD.