Neteller Update...

[egoldy]

Let's not bring up the badly written letter again [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I do agree with you though.

[PoorLawyer]

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Read the FAQ again... it directly addresses this question. Any funds Neteller tries to clear thru checks at this point, are going to be seized!

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Why would they be seized?

Neteller is a foreign corporation, that's not under indictment. Some companies might refrain from cooperating with the Feds under those circumstances. At least to the extent of making sure they return their depositor's money.

Neteller's chosen to bend over backwards. If the checks would be seized, it's only because they've chosen that route.

Neteller's executives are doing what maximizes their own interests - and quite probably the intersts of the guys who got arrested. But the customers don't have a seat at the table, and our interests are not being represented - not by anyone.


Also, it doesn't really matter that the letter was poorly written - Neteller doesn't really care whether their customers are good writers, and (if they have any sense) they expect them to be angry.

Sniper, may I ask if you have money deposited or stock with the company?


Edit: I do like your questions, though.

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Here are the important questions...

1. Aside from the $55 Mil in funds seized in transfer, what is the total amount of US customer funds remaining to be disbursed?

2. Where are the US cutomer funds held?

3. Are these funds currently under Neteller control or frozen by court order?

4. Assuming agreement from DOJ and Navigant, what obstacles remain after the disbursement plan is released within 75 days, that may delay disbursement of funds?

5. After disbursement of US customer funds, are there issues with Neteller continuing to do business with the rest of the world, that non US customers should be aware of?

6. At what point will Neteller shares resume trading?

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Everyone is forgetting the shareholders....their interests are greater than the customers right now because one wrong move could tank the whole corporation...compliance was the best way to ensure that no charges were brought against the company. Compliance is why they are not sending checks out right now even though everyone "knows" that they would have no problem sending checks. Compliance is why they are letting navigant give the DOJ a bunch of colorful charts and graphs before the DOJ says its ok to return funds. You can't really blame them for trying to save the company, though it sucks for us consumers who have to sit on our hands and wait for our money.

[Sniper]

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Why would they be seized?

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Because the DOJ went after their 3rd party processors... 2 which the Neteller founders may have still been involved with were mentioned in the founder arrest press release and and you can follow the discussion of ECHO in this thread

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Neteller is a foreign corporation, that's not under indictment. Some companies might refrain from cooperating with the Feds under those circumstances. At least to the extent of making sure they return their depositor's money.

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I think you have the wrong perspective on this. Their cooperation is likely aimed at stopping the gov't from further indictments. They do have shareholder interests to protect as well, as their customers. Read the ECHO press release, for an idea. At the moment, Neteller is continuing to do business outside the US.

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Neteller's chosen to bend over backwards. If the checks would be seized, it's only because they've chosen that route. Neteller's executives are doing what maximizes their own interests - and quite probably the intersts of the guys who got arrested. But the customers don't have a seat at the table, and our interests are not being represented - not by anyone.

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I actually disagree with this...

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Also, it doesn't really matter that the letter was poorly written - Neteller doesn't really care whether their customers are good writers, and (if they have any sense) they expect them to be angry.

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Being angry doesn't get your money back any faster... asking the right questions, may get more information released.

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Sniper, may I ask if you have money deposited or stock with the company?

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I do have an interest in seeing this resolved.

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Edit: I do like your questions, though.

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Here are the important questions...

1. Aside from the $55 Mil in funds seized in transfer, what is the total amount of US customer funds remaining to be disbursed?

2. Where are the US cutomer funds held?

3. Are these funds currently under Neteller control or frozen by court order?

4. Assuming agreement from DOJ and Navigant, what obstacles remain after the disbursement plan is released within 75 days, that may delay disbursement of funds?

5. After disbursement of US customer funds, are there issues with Neteller continuing to do business with the rest of the world, that non US customers should be aware of?

6. At what point will Neteller shares resume trading?

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Thanks!... I think those are the important questions... with unnecessary negative commentary removed. imo, it is better at this stage to be a fact finder than an irate customer.

[LinusKS]

Poor Lawyer, I 100% agree that "Compliance is why they are not sending checks out right now even though everyone "knows" that they would have no problem sending checks."

And I agree that "Compliance is why they are letting navigant give the DOJ a bunch of colorful charts and graphs before the DOJ says its ok to return funds."

And I don't blame the executives at Neteller for advancing their own interests in this matter, or those of shareholders.

But I disagree that the interests of shareholders is "are greater than the customers."

Our interests are different, and perhaps even opposed, but whose interests are greater is purely a matter of whether you have money in Neteller shares, or money on deposit.


Sniper, I understand the DOJ went after 3rd party processors, but how does that stop Neteller from sending checks?

Or, if someone's willing to do it, releasing funds directly with a bank draft (or in cash) on the Isle of Man? (And there are customers who'd be willing to go there, if it meant they could get their cash.)

Or person-to-person transfers? Or merchant accounts?

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I think you have the wrong perspective on this. Their cooperation is likely aimed at stopping the gov't from further indictments.

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I have zero doubt about that. My issue is that the customers' interests aren't being represented. The DOJ is looking after their interests, Neteller is looking after its interests, but nobody is advocating on behalf of customers.

Our interests aren't even on the screen; they're off the radar. And I suspect that's not going to change unless or until somebody brings some real pressure to bear on Neteller, or at least makes a credible threat.

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Being angry doesn't get your money back any faster... asking the right questions, may get more information released.

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No, but not being angry doesn't get money back either. [ -- Maybe I've been in the politics forum too long.]

Seriously, though, if you do have $$$ in shares you sould consider being careful about offering advice to customers, because our interests are different.

And I say that respectfully, mainly because I enjoyed your Krispy Kreme thread so much, but I do think it's important.

[yahboohoo]

How NETeller has prioritized constituents in the Lawrence and Lefebvre case:

1. Keep their current managers and directors out of prison.
2. Minimize damage (financial and otherwise) to the company.
3. Maximize shareholder potential (current managers and directors are also shareholders).
4. Keep Lawrence and Lefebvre out of prison (Lawrence and Lefebvre are also shareholders).
5. Preserve relationships with e-gaming merchants in the UK and Asia.
6. Keep relationships with e-gaming customers in the UK and Asia.
7. Return money to US customers.
8. Protect the legal interests of US customers.

Shuffle it around a little if you like, but I challenge anyone to explain how or why US customers interests aren't at the bottom of this list.

Mind you, I don't fault NETeller for prioritizing in this way. Only saints and martyrs put the interests of others before themselves, and this is seldom the best way to run a business.

[LinusKS]

qft, but I still think it looks more like this:

1. Stay out of jail.
2. Keep job.
3. Help out L&L.
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14. Order new seat covers for the executive washroom.
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37. Give Americans' money back.

[PoorLawyer]

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Our interests are different, and perhaps even opposed, but whose interests are greater is purely a matter of whether you have money in Neteller shares, or money on deposit.


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You are looking at it from the wrong point of view. You can't look through your own eyes or they eyes of a minority shareholder, because neither are the decision maker.
Obviously, as a person with money that is frozen, I have a greater interest in getting that back and could care less about the shareholders. However, that has no bearing on whose interests are greater in the eyes of Neteller. You simply can't blame them too much for putting people who own a piece of the company ahead of us and trying to ensure that the company can move forward with non-US business after this whole mess....its purely a business decision and we are low man on the totem pole because they can't take our business anymore anyway.

[LinusKS]

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Our interests are different, and perhaps even opposed, but whose interests are greater is purely a matter of whether you have money in Neteller shares, or money on deposit.


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You are looking at it from the wrong point of view. You can't look through your own eyes or they eyes of a minority shareholder, because neither are the decision maker.
Obviously, as a person with money that is frozen, I have a greater interest in getting that back and could care less about the shareholders. However, that has no bearing on whose interests are greater in the eyes of Neteller. You simply can't blame them too much for putting people who own a piece of the company ahead of us and trying to ensure that the company can move forward with non-US business after this whole mess....its purely a business decision and we are low man on the totem pole because they can't take our business anymore anyway.

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I'm not sure you're feelin me, dude.

Obv Neteller doesn't give a crap about me. That was my whole point.

[yahboohoo]

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14. Order new seat covers for the executive washroom.

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So NETeller execs have stopped shitting in their pants, and have returned to normal restroom usage?

[Sniper]

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Our interests are different, and perhaps even opposed, but whose interests are greater is purely a matter of whether you have money in Neteller shares, or money on deposit.

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fwiw, money in shares > US customer accounts... that said, it certainly sounds like progress is being made to return customer monies... its just slower and more complicated than we would like. However, getting Neteller shares trading again, is a piece of the larger puzzle, and understanding what is keeping them halted (likely because there is still unreleased information), helps to understand the bigger picture.

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Sniper, I understand the DOJ went after 3rd party processors, but how does that stop Neteller from sending checks?

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In a nutshell, their checks are no good here (and no one is willing to cut checks going to the US for them, at the moment)... I have a sense that based on agreements with the DOJ/Navigant the remainder of US customer funds are also held in place, pending further agreement on their distribution. We should know more in this by the end of the 75 days.

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I think you have the wrong perspective on this. Their cooperation is likely aimed at stopping the gov't from further indictments.

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I have zero doubt about that. My issue is that the customers' interests aren't being represented. The DOJ is looking after their interests, Neteller is looking after its interests, but nobody is advocating on behalf of customers. Our interests aren't even on the screen; they're off the radar. And I suspect that's not going to change unless or until somebody brings some real pressure to bear on Neteller, or at least makes a credible threat.

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I actually believe that Neteller is advocating for customer interests. I can't see any reason why they would want to delay returning funds, in a legal approved manner. Ultimately, Neteller will return to the US...

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Being angry doesn't get your money back any faster... asking the right questions, may get more information released.

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No, but not being angry doesn't get money back either. [ -- Maybe I've been in the politics forum too long.]

Seriously, though, if you do have $$$ in shares you sould consider being careful about offering advice to customers, because our interests are different.

And I say that respectfully, mainly because I enjoyed your Krispy Kreme thread so much, but I do think it's important.

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1. I didn't say we shouldn't be angry... but being angry and threatening in a letter trying to gain information and continue dialogue with a Neteller VP is likely counterproductive to actually getting more information released. Everything in the right time and place.

2. I have money locked up in Neteller just like you.

3. The Krispy Kreme thread was DesertCat's baby [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]