Help -- I have NEVER seen this happen before.

[SA125]

Dude, there are times when being strong willed or pig headed is obnoxious. This is one of those times where it wouldn't be. You should have stepped up harder, stopped the action and taken a stand. Walk away and let the dealer keep screwing you? Bad move.

[AKHobbes]

I think that this is being blown out of proportion. I would think that most of you 2+2'ers would know that if the dealer truly made the mistake, then the real winning hand would be a set of queens. Just because he awarded the pot doesn't mean it's over. What if a dealer misreads a hand and awards it incorrectly? Do you know how much of a problem this would cause? I understand that the floor and dealer weren't very amicable about it but you have to understand. The dealer does this every day is constantly correcting mistakes. I love the John Juanda approach to this scenario... If you weren't meant to win, well... too bad.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that this is being blown out of proportion. I would think that most of you 2+2'ers would know that if the dealer truly made the mistake, then the real winning hand would be a set of queens. Just because he awarded the pot doesn't mean it's over. What if a dealer misreads a hand and awards it incorrectly? Do you know how much of a problem this would cause? I understand that the floor and dealer weren't very amicable about it but you have to understand. The dealer does this every day is constantly correcting mistakes. I love the John Juanda approach to this scenario... If you weren't meant to win, well... too bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand the problem.

1 - The dealer should never try to fix a situation like this on his own. Ever, ever, ever. That's what the floor is there for.

2 - There was no explanation by the dealer as to what he was doing or how he was determining which cards were which. For all the OP knew, the dealer and other player were in on it, and the dealer saw a Q in the muck, and claimed the board was incorrect so he could replace the correct card with the Q.

3 - When you ask the dealer to call the floor, the dealer should call the floor immediately. It's not the dealer's job to decide whether your request is valid or not.

If the dealer had stopped, left everything as it was, called the floor, explained exactly what had happened, been able to identify exactly which cards were supposed to be where, and the floor agreed with the explanation, and then replaced the river with the "correct" Q, only then would the situation have been handled correctly. The result is unimportant in determining correctness - it's all about the process.

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that this is being blown out of proportion. I would think that most of you 2+2'ers would know that if the dealer truly made the mistake, then the real winning hand would be a set of queens. Just because he awarded the pot doesn't mean it's over. What if a dealer misreads a hand and awards it incorrectly? Do you know how much of a problem this would cause? I understand that the floor and dealer weren't very amicable about it but you have to understand. The dealer does this every day is constantly correcting mistakes. I love the John Juanda approach to this scenario... If you weren't meant to win, well... too bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand the problem.

1 - The dealer should never try to fix a situation like this on his own. Ever, ever, ever. That's what the floor is there for.

2 - There was no explanation by the dealer as to what he was doing or how he was determining which cards were which. For all the OP knew, the dealer and other player were in on it, and the dealer saw a Q in the muck, and claimed the board was incorrect so he could replace the correct card with the Q.

3 - When you ask the dealer to call the floor, the dealer should call the floor immediately. It's not the dealer's job to decide whether your request is valid or not.

If the dealer had stopped, left everything as it was, called the floor, explained exactly what had happened, been able to identify exactly which cards were supposed to be where, and the floor agreed with the explanation, and then replaced the river with the "correct" Q, only then would the situation have been handled correctly. The result is unimportant in determining correctness - it's all about the process.

[/ QUOTE ]

This response pretty well approximates how I feel. I can suck it up when I lose as a 92% favorite; that happens from time to time. But when five cards are dealt, the hand is over, and I'm the winner, I have a real problem with a dealer going back and changing things, even if he's retrieving the cards that would have actually hit the turn and river.

Again, let me say that I have some level of confidence that the dealer knew which cards were burn cards and cards were mucked, and that he also had an idea for which particular burn cards should have been board cards. But he did take the time to SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY explain what he was doing.

Even if he had done so, he should have called the floor first to rule. After reading this thread, I'm confident that the floor would have either declared the original board to stand, or would have had the dealer re-shuffle the remaining cards and re-deal the turn and river.

When a player loses confidence that the staff understands how to handle important situations, that player is going to eventually go elsewhere. Do you see why?

[bav]

I have some problems with the whole idea of dealing out the entire board, then deciding that result isn't good so let's deal it again. This is the sorta thing that a dealer could do on purpose if he was working to try to be sure the pot went to a particular player. "Forget" to burn and deal it. If you don't like the result, proclaim "oops" and do it again. Your partner gets two shots at winning.

Seems highly unlikely that's the case here, but allowing it at all is highly dubious if'n you ask me.

[RydenStoompala]

From, The Professional Poker Dealer's Handbook, 2nd Edition, 2nd Printing, August 2005:

In case of any argument or questionable circumstances, a floorperson must be called to make a decision. As the dealer, you never make a decision even though you may know the correct ruling. All decisions by the floorperson are final.

You won the hand. The dealer is a bum. The floorperson should be washing cars. End of story.