KK hand. 4400 stacks 5-10 6-max..

[Lyric]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so ive been at the table for an hour running very well, raising alot preflop and betting and hitting alot of flops.

So now I get KK utg and raise to 40 (standard) and its folded to SB who calls, then BB makes it 140, I call and SB folds. BB has a stack of 6000 and is laggish. He also made a min-raise flopbluff against me in a raised pot a couple of orbits ago and then showed.

Flop(340) 7-8-5r BB bets 350 and I call.

Turn(1040) 5 BB bets 1000, I call.

River(3040) Q BB bets 2000, I call.

What irritates me with this hand is that I just call all the way but at the same time I cant find a good spot for a raise either. Can you?

If you fold the river would your decision change if the river brought a low card?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is player dependant. If this guy will stack off with an overpair less than AA you have two lines.

Call and raise the flop and call all in to re raise.
Re raise pre and call all in to a push.

If this guy is LAG pre but not stupid and won't stack off with QQ and JJ -- you have the same two lines but fold to pushes both pre and on the flop.

[Nezzar]

Thanks to all for the responses.

Im still not sure how I should have played the hand.

Someone suggested a reraise preflop wich I dont like at all because it gives my hand away completly and he can play perfect against me.

Someone also suggested that one could raise the turn for cheap showdown. Thats an idea but it only makes me win less when im ahead and possibly lose a like 100BB or so less when facing AA.

What havent been suggested yet is a flop minraise. Reasons are that you take over the initiative, you control the hand/pot better, you get info/read, you can check turn (hopefully) and call/bet/check river and play a smaller pot if thats what you want. And if he pushes I save money from later valuebets of his?
Donwside is that I lose (some) value against overpairs that i beat and lose alot of value against bluffs.
Im not sure if I want to lose all that value against bluffs. If he has an overpair that I beat I can still get (some) value from them on the river and maybe im happy with that.

Thabadguy (i think) said that showing turn might be correct and thats a very interesting option.

All in all i think i like how i played the hand against this villain except maybe for river which im still not sure about.


Well here comes my thinking in the hand when played.

Preflop: i never 3bet this deep without AA and then i make it enough that i dont give implied odds.

Flop: I still dont want to give my hand away. I could be on a draw in villains eyes still.

Turn: Now i think its very possible he has an overpair. But there is a chance he is on bluff/monster. I call here because i think that if villain has an overpair he will check the river and bet if he on bluff/monster.

River: Of corse he could have hit with his QQ, but i want to see it in that case. I think the chances that he is on bluff/monster are very good here and since he was the aggressor preflop I think he has bluff more than monster without the Q on river. With the Q however i dont know. But I call.

Villain had AA.

[cero_z]

Hi guys,

[ QUOTE ]
how is putting 1000 in the pot a freeshot to hit a 2 or 3 outer?

[/ QUOTE ] --Jocke F
If he's good and he has outs to beat you (QQ/JJ/gutshot/whatever), he will not put another chip in the pot after you call 1000, unless he hits. So, you'll be in the position of not being able to win any more regardless of what happens, but you could lose more if he gets lucky. Obviously, it's better to raise him on the turn in this case.


[ QUOTE ]
I am willing to let THEM spike a 2 or 3 outer so I can get value on a good river (he has QQ or JJ and checks river I bet/push or he continues bluffing).

[/ QUOTE ]
--Nezzar
Right, but that is not giving them a free shot to beat you. If they'll still bet (or call with) a worse hand (smaller pair or bluff)on the river after you call 1000, then it wasn't free, and I agree that calling is good. I feel that most players are not aggressive enough to do this (whether they're good or bad).

[highhustla]

What blows my mind is that villain had to put hero squarely on KK to make that river value bet, right? badass

[Nezzar]

[ QUOTE ]
What blows my mind is that villain had to put hero squarely on KK to make that river value bet, right? badass

[/ QUOTE ]

True. He put me on that hand and played me perfectly.... or he just bet all the way way without thinking.

After this I "tilted" my stack up to about 2700 in 20-20 mins and then the following hand occured:

four limpers to the tilter in BB (me). I look at AQo and bet 70 from the blinds, all call (villain in SB).

flop(320) Q-3-6. two clubs. I pot, SB minraises and I call(?)

Turn(1600) 9o. He bets 1000 and I move in he calls and shows 9-9 and takes down a 5600 pot. A guy at the table pities me and villain says in chat that he had to see if tilter was bluffing on flop and wouldnt continue with the unless that nine came. This is what you were talking about cero? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Then im tilting a little for real and run my stack to 3400 in what feels like ten minutes and this hand occurs:

CO and SB limps to me in BB and i bet 50 with my JdJ (limp to me I bet/raise is standard by now), all call.

Flop(180) Q-9-8 all diamonds. I have Jd and pot he minraises, I move in and he calls (sh!t), I think why? why was i so stupid and moved in?.

Turn blank and river brings a lovely 5d. YEAH! finally some luck! He shows A-2 of diamonds. After this he leaves the table and I continue my tiltfest.

[john kane]

anytime someone posts a hand and they have check-called or called down the hand often they have played the hand badly (occasional exceptions).

at no point during the hand did you decide what the opponent had or made any effort to work out what he had.

youve played the hand like a lottery - calling and hoping you'll win.

obviously this hand would always be near impossible to get away from when your up against a LAG, but on the river you have to ask yourself finally what he actually has rather than constantly calling him. you must expect him to have QQ KK or AA and so you should fold.

personally id of min raised the turn. you have negated your positional advantage by never taking control nor raising for information (although against a lag like here its often hard to narrow down the range of hands when he calls the raise).

Very hard hand to play, but id still say a min raise on the turn to hopefully get a free showdown from then on or if you call then fold to the 2,000 on the river.

[Nezzar]

Hi john,

I disagree with almost everything you say in your post. In the result post I stated my thinking in the hand. Did you read it?