Can Someone Explain Hunting to Me?

[slickpoppa]

Andy:

"When people do not have to exert themselves to satisfy their physical needs they often set up artificial goals for themselves. In many cases they then pursue these goals with the same energy and emotional involvement that they otherwise would have put into the search for physical necessities. Thus the aristocrats of the Roman Empire had their literary pretensions; many European aristocrats a few centuries ago invested tremendous time and energy in hunting, though they certainly didn't need the meat; other aristocracies have competed for status through elaborate displays of wealth; and a few aristocrats, like Hirohito, have turned to science. We use the term "surrogate activity" to designate an activity that is directed toward an artificial goal that people set up for themselves merely in order to have some goal to work toward, or let us say, merely for the sake of the "fulfillment" that they get from pursuing the goal. Here is a rule of thumb for the identification of surrogate activities. Given a person who devotes much time and energy to the pursuit of goal X, ask yourself this: If he had to devote most of his time and energy to satisfying his biological needs, and if that effort required him to use his physical and mental facilities in a varied and interesting way, would he feel seriously deprived because he did not attain goal X? If the answer is no, then the person's pursuit of a goal X is a surrogate activity."

Free cookie for anyone who knows what that quote is from without googling.

[ShakeZula06]

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I grew up hunting but no longer hunt, it really comes down to one thing "power" or the illusion of power over another living thing.

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For most hunters this is dead wrong.

[XXXNoahXXX]

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Thoreau implies that he would have little faith in a man who didn't hunt as a boy, and little faith in a man who continued to hunt as an adult. I tend to see his point.

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This is like the "a young republican has no heart and an old democrat has no brain" type deal.


I enjoy sitting in the woods, full camouflage, waiting patiently for my prey to walk past me unsuspecting, quietly raise my gun and slowly aim before firing and taking them down. For me, there is absolutely nothing that is more fun.

(for the record, I'm talking about paintball. Fulfills all your hunting and war fantasies in one pain-free activity!)

[Jetboy2]

This was 32 years ago in South Georgia, so here goes....

Tuesday afternoon.
Toby and I smoked a joint and drove out to the farm in his pickup. In the back of the truck were the makings of 2 deer stands. So, we got out to the farm, and then drove into some woods next to a corn field. We'd been seeing lots of deer signs in this area, so we figured it would be a good spot for our stands.

We set up our stands. The stands were basically some rude platforms set up about 8 feet off the ground in some Loblolly pine trees. We were happy, so we smoked another joint.

Friday morning.
Alarm goes off at 3AM. Get up, arrgh! Put on my camos, grab the gun, and Toby pulls into the driveway. I hop in. We smoke a joint on the way and arrive at the farm around 4:15am.

We each climb into deer stands. It's still dark and cold...well, cold for South Georgia. The sun rises and soon after I hear a shot. Then Toby starts hollering. Well, I climb down and head over to his stand. Toby just got his first deer. His brand new 30ought6 just paid off.

We gut the deer. (We're Southern Boys, so we know what to do) Then we haul it off to the truck. We take the carcass to Hiram to cut it up. (Hiram's a good ol boy friend of ours)

Saturday.
We start the day out at the farm gathering firewood. (I got a terrible case of poison oak from this!) Then we make a fire pit. There are 8 of us. We're all stoned and punch drunk from too little sleep. We have venison, dove and quail. And bourbon and pot.

Later on there is a massive meat feast. Our girlfriends and other friends arrive at the farm. They bring the potato salad, collard greens and whatnot. Not to mention the pot, beer and bourbon. A great time was had by all!

So, later on...........I moved to the west coast and became a hippy.

[Metric]

Memories of hunting deer (for meat) has to be some of my fondest memories of growing up -- out in the morning mist, in the moutains, overlooking some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen. All the while trudging up and down the hills, strategizing over where the elusive whitetail might be found. And I remember the whole "meat isn't grown in celophane" realization realy hitting home after my first successful hunt. It was something I always knew, of course, but had never really understood -- somehow you get a new perspective on the nature of life when you personally take the life of your food yourself.

Haven't been able to do that for a long time due to various time-consuming responsibilities, but those were beautiful experiences.

[RR]

I was once the secretary/treasurer for a hunting club. My main job was to run the poker game.

[John Kilduff]

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Good article, thanks.

From the article:
"Can any of us honestly say that, as kids, we didn't shoot birds with our slingshots and bb guns, or set homemade traps for other critters?"

-I think that's the point I'm getting at. Of course we all did similar things as kids. But we outgrew it with maturity and a more mature sense of morality.

"There's just no way to adequately portray the majesty of a forest and the creatures within"

-So majestic as to warrant shooting?

"The hunting instinct is one of the most basic instincts of mankind."

-I dunno. There's plenty of evidence that humans are violent, but I'm not sure whether that's instinct or learned behavior.

"We hunt to be alone, to observe wildlife without being observed ourselves, to face one of the greatest challenges in this world: to take a wild animal on his own turf, using our brain and little else."

-I've been alone in the wilderness and obdserved wildlife withoutt he urge to "take" it. And I would challenge the "little else" if it includes a gun.

"Without the kill, you aren't hunting. That doesn't mean that you have to kill every legal animal you see, but hunting is not hunting if you're not there to kill. But to return to the quote, one does not go hunting expressly for that purpose. Hunting is freedom, a tie to our ancestors, peace, contentment, happiness, joy, sweat, close calls, exploring, hiking, stealth, boring, exhilarating, tiring, satisfying, challenging, and a thousand other things."

-I understand all those things. Except for why they can't be satisfied except if they result in a kill.

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The key here is that you seem to be thinking that hunting is something one should outgrow. You really haven't outgrown it yourself, though: you've just subverted the urge into other endeavors. Now you hunt money instead, and derive a certain satisfaction from successfully attaining money and using that money to put a fine steak on the table which was killed as is any hunted animal. You've merely made the process more roundabout.

Let's imagine a hypothetical: in the aftermath of the biggest world war ever seen, you can no longer buy much prepared food. You have to go out and hunt your meat and grow your own corn, for the most part. Once acclimated to this new paradigm, do you think you might then derive a certain satisfaction from successfully bringing in game to spread at your dinner table? Do you think that maybe then you wouldn't regard it as being gratuitously violent?

I know you said that you wanted to know what makes some hunt without eating the meat they kill. Fair question. I just think that when you are looking askance at the larger picture of hunting, which includes eating the meat, you are not fully reflecting on the direct participation you have in killing animals when you buy meat at the stores. I'm not railing against the eating of meat, but your financial support of the meat industry (through purchases) kills animals just as surely as does the hunter. The hunter gets fresh air and exercise and a challenge in the process. You earn money however it is you may, then pay someone to kill animals for you. I think if anything the hunter's way may be somehow more emotionally honest.

Let's imagine you own a farm and raised beef and chickens for food for yourself and family - and you have to slaughter it yourself if you want to eat meat (assuming you still wouldn't go hunting). Do you think that task might impact how often you would eat meat? If it would mean that you would eat less meat than if you couldn't fob the dirty work off on some someone else, then by doing it your present way you are actually causing more animals to die a violent death than if they had to die at your own hands.

I agree that there is something odd and somewhat disturbing about hunters who don't eat the meat at all.

Other than that, I think hunting is probably a more honest way of gaining meat, which also helps rather than harms the environment, and if the hunters also enjoy the challenge and the outdoors, I think that is fine.

It must also be more of a challenge to hunt down a defenseless deer than to poleaxe a defenseless calf or cow. Shooting wild ducks must be more challenging than wringing the necks of cooped chickens. If hunters get satisfaction out of putting meat on the table directly, I don't think that can possibly be worse than those who get satisfaction out of hunting money and buying slaughtered meat to put on the table. Direct or indirect, that is the question. If anything I think the direct approach has more to recommend it morally and ethically than indirect methods resulting in commensurate (or even greater) violence.

This was a rather long and rambling post, so thanks especially this time for reading [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[slickss]

For some reason I find that hunting small prey, such as birds, is okay - while hunting bigger animals, such as bears, moose, deer, and lions - is not.

The reason I don't like that latter is because of the unfair advantage the hunter has. The animal has absolutely no chance but to hope that the hunter misses his shot(s).

What I would accept and respect is "fair hunting". No firearms. Let's test the courage of hunters by allowing them to hunt with primitive weapons such as a knife and bow and arrow only. Let's see someone attack a moose with a knife. Now it's actually exciting - there's actually a good chance the challenger (the hunter) loses.

[Myrtle]

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We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.

Thoreau on hunting (worth reading).

Thoreau implies that he would have little faith in a man who didn't hunt as a boy, and little faith in a man who continued to hunt as an adult. I tend to see his point.

Mack of Sunnybrook Farm

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What an elegant, to-the-point way of characterizing such a complex subject.....

Thanks for posting it Phat.........

[BCPVP]

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The reason I don't like that latter is because of the unfair advantage the hunter has. The animal has absolutely no chance but to hope that the hunter misses his shot(s).

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You've never hunted in your life, have you?