it seems like everytime i cold 4 it with aces...

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I will repeat the question.
Op called on the turn to get the diamond.

[/ QUOTE ]

no he didn't. he called on the turn to shut down the bluff by QQ, the other aces, or (total weirdness) and occasionally to outdraw AK and maybe get paid a little on the river in a big pot.

none of that applies when the other guy shoves the river.

[ QUOTE ]
And FD isn't Overpair+FD.Or do you not see why the second one is better?
Yes, i am ready to felt overpair + Nut FD in every reraised pot.DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

WHO CARES ABOUT HIS RANGE I HAVE A DRAW

[YoDuff]

LuckyChewy -
Tuff hand - thanks for posting. I learned a little here (I think). I normally would automatically bet the flop here, but now I think that checking is better. Worse hands will not call, and better hands will not fold. Also, if he's got KK or JJ, he probably checked the flop to set up a check raise. By checking, you're getting your free card to your nut flush.
However, once you check the flop, you're pretty much committing to either get your stack in, or fold to a bet on the turn.
The one drawback of checking the flop is that you get yourself into tricky situations like this. By checking the flop, you're giving villan the green light to bet. Granted, the only beatable hands he should have that would be betting would be QQ, AsAh, or AK, and most likely he wouldn't bet those in this situation.
All in all, checking looks like way the best play on the flop.
Thanks Lucky and adanthar
ps - I woulda grit my teeth and called it down too, even though it looks like it might be wrong. I just think the passive checking made it easy for him to bet, so it might have induced a bluff, so I'm calling.

[PartyGirlUK]

Everyone you should listen to Adanthar, his strategy posts are always excellent, he understands poker better than almost anyone on this forum.......

[Black winter day]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone you should listen to Adanthar, his strategy posts are always excellent, he understands poker better than almost anyone on this forum.......

[/ QUOTE ]

I took your advice and read all his posts in this thread.
Now i have a lot to think about...I'd bet this flop like 90% of the time saying "well, if he has a set, at least i have 11 outs".
I actually changed my mind now and it really does seem like i fold out all the worse hands and get my money in the middle against all hands that i am underdog to.

Very good thread.

[Black winter day]

I have a question.
What if we didn't have Ad...Do we bet the flop now to charge AdK QdQ for draws or do we still check, cause when they push back with those hands we don't know whether it's a set or pair+fd and might call being in terrible shape?

[aejones]

if we don't have the ace of diamonds we just hope that the online poker site we are playing on has an open fold button

[luckychewy]

ya if i didn't have the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] i would check the flop and fold the turn, or maybe call the turn and fold the river. i guess it shouldn't play much of a role in determining my turn action because the only way the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] actually matters is if i am against AK. or if he is betting the turn with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Qx then the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is also key.

[Hoopster81]

I think your play up to the river is optimal and a river fold is expert.

[adanthar]

if our aces are black and AK doesn't make it to the flop v. often, we just check behind/fold every street (sucks to be us if he has red queens this one time I guess). if it does, we fold on this turn, but call if it's a 2 of clubs and then make up our mind on the river.

btw, the reason duck and other people who are better at HS 6 max than I am say to call is because say 10/20 6m plays aggro enough that he can easily be grimstarring AQ the whole way. this, however, is 2/4 and by the time we get to the flop, he has 4 hands (maybe.)

[Lucky]

Getting about 2.5 to 1, given read, i'm not folding here for sure.

Villain can have smaller pair, suited connector that he called off only slightly more than 10% of eff stacks to see flop. So his pf call was slightly incorrect unless he's going to push you off a lot of hands, like say when you've checked flop through, call turn, and 4th flush card hits on river.