Question on a ruling in my WSOP (#8) event - Page 7

tipperdog · #61 07-05-2006, 08:25 PM

Ok Richard,
What if the situation were changed slightly. Your opponent tables his "best" hand and miscalls it. Only this time, you're only about 95% sure you saw his cards correctly. The dealer sweeps the cards into the muck and ships you the pot. In your opinion, are you still ethically obligated to notify the dealer/floor? What if you didn't see the cards clearly at all and think there's a 10% chance you were beaten?

Richard Tanner · #62 07-05-2006, 08:32 PM

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...And yes, at that point it is my responsibility because the pot was raked to me by the DEALER and I was under the impression once cards are mucked and the pot is raked, no changes should be made.

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You're very correct here, and his decision to "redo" everything on the word of a few is a little bothersome.
I'd have dealt with it while the cards were out, but once the chips are stacked, they're yours.

Cody

WarDekar · #63 07-05-2006, 08:46 PM

Thank you, this is what my original question was.

I did not post for a lesson on morals or ethics - I knew I would be berated for my original silence. But I was a little bothered by the fact the floor had not seen anything, the dealer had not seen anything, and it was simply the word of 2 players not even in the hand. And of course myself, and since I saw it I gave the chips up, but I still disagreed with the floor decision.

Richard Tanner · #64 07-05-2006, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you, this is what my original question was.

I did not post for a lesson on morals or ethics - I knew I would be berated for my original silence. But I was a little bothered by the fact the floor had not seen anything, the dealer had not seen anything, and it was simply the word of 2 players not even in the hand. And of course myself, and since I saw it I gave the chips up, but I still disagreed with the floor decision.

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I think you handled it (post hand reading) very well. I hope I could be so correct in positions similar to this. I realize this was for very little money and that you saw the cards and knew the right thing to do, but were I in a position where a floor who wasn't there tryed to take my stacked chips away for a previous hand (assuming I have no knowledge of incorrect action) he can go fornicate himself.

Cody

Transference · #65 07-05-2006, 09:22 PM

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I doubt it's an equal number, and I would further guess that if we were to poll all the pro players that play here, it would be 100% you were incorrect (give or take 1).

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I'll give you 20:1 on any amount I can scrape up

WarDekar · #66 07-05-2006, 09:38 PM

I agree. I would think a lot (if not most?) would have had a similar line as mine on this. And I think a lot of the naysayers on this board would have as well if they were in my position.

In fact, I think if put to the test, some of the guys berating my actions would have even contested the floor decision as well. It's a lot easier to say what you WOULD have done than actually being in that spot.

AlcateL · #67 07-05-2006, 09:46 PM

crazy pineapple: Chop pot.

AlcateL · #68 07-05-2006, 09:47 PM

because you can lose 1000 dollars to a bad beat, i'm not going to lose my ethics for the sake of 500 (for example)

If you're willing to then more power to you.

NickMPK · #69 07-05-2006, 09:48 PM

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I think this is a highly controversial topic.

recreating a hand after there is no evidence to verify it except the testimony of a few that were watching, is a dangerous precedent.

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My impression from the OP was that there was evidence that the other guy had won the hand...the hands were tabled and nothing was mucked before the floor got there. If the hands were mucked I think the floor's decision would have been different.

WarDekar · #70 07-05-2006, 10:04 PM

I don't feel like re-reading my original post, but YES the hands were mucked BEFORE the floor was there. Me and other player showed down our hands, he called his incorrectly, dealer raked me the pot and mucked all hands.

To clarify, other player SHOWED his hand, THEN dealer mucked everything, raked pot to me, and began shuffle for next hand and THEN another player stated he had the full house. When the floor was called, all cards were face down and there was no evidence of what any of our hands or the community cards were.