ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

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It's wrong. You are a moderator.

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Would it make a difference if he were not a moderator. Would it be ok then? What about funny???

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It wouldnt because only a moderator has that power

[curtains]

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just to set the record straight i changed his title. I don't think it's wrong in the least, it's meant to be funny, and it is funny. Anyone that disagrees doesn't really have a sense of humor imo.

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It's wrong. You are a moderator.

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And as such is his duty to label the cheaters.

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His duty is not to decide what he thinks is cheating and then label the cheaters. Yes what was done was cheating in the opinion of the majority of the forum, including myself. However there are other types of less obvious cheating, where maybe only 30% of people would agree that its cheating. Do I think a moderator should be able to just label whomever they want as cheaters at any time? No I don't.

Moderators should be held to the highest standards. It's not their job to do something "funny" at the expense of someone else, whether they feel that person deserves it or not.

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What you describe is not what happened here. YOu are accusing him of doing something he has not. Zeejustin Cheated, he admitted to cheating, so he should be labeled as such.

Furthermore, If they can ban people for revealing screen names, and swearing, surely they should be able to not only label the cheaters that are on here, but also he should get banned from 2+2. He makes number 2 in 2 weeks.

His actions, affect this entire community. And we have a reputation to uphold.

What bothers me, is that you are more upset at him being a labeld a cheater by a mod, then you are at Z.

But then again, you did give him advice as to what would have been "fair" cheating so I can see why you might have a biased.

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I did not give him advice as to what would be "fair" cheating. I'm not going to go into detail of what happened, but that isn't it.

I will go into detail that I told ZJ that multiaccounting MTTs is wrong and it should never be done under any circumstance. This is a long term stance I've had on the issue and a lot of regular players know this about me.

I do believe that what ZJ did was wrong, but there are plenty of people attacking him here, you don't need me to do so also. However just because he is wrong doesn't mean that everyone's reaction to his behavior is great as well. There is a bit too much of a mob mentality here.

[rothko]

We're still waiting on the giga dirt. Anyone?

[holeplug]

The one thing that kinda shocked me the most about both the JJ and the ZJ incidents is that they both knew they were cheating and if caught "bad" things would happen to their money. With so much money at stake you would think they would have taken better measures to cover their tracks and, thankfully for us, it doesn't look like they did anything at all.

[Lori]

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There is a bit too much of a mob mentality here.


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The guy has stolen several hundred thousand dollars from this mob.

Lori

[pokerstudAA]

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There is a bit too much of a mob mentality here.


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He cheated us ALL.

[DVaut1]

Is it fair to ask curtains (and others) how long/how much they knew about Zee and others multi-accounting? I certainly have absolutely no idea how much curtains, N 82 50 24, etc. knew or didn't know; but both of them seemed to be aware of what was going on before the knowledge became 'public' (which is indicative of nothing; both are friendly with him, and perhaps Zee both told them recently what was happening with Party -- and it's certainly possible curtains, N 82 50 24 WERE the ones reponsible for alerting Party, whether they admit it or not; or perhaps they just heard through the rumor mill; etc. etc. etc. In other words, there's lots and lots of way they could have known what was happening with ZJ without having kept the information private for a substantial amount of time).

However, I certainly think we could call into question the ethics of those who seemed to have some level of prior knowledge (again, I have no idea how much) but *didn't* alert Party, etc.

Again, this sounds like a witch-hunt; but it's somewhat common knowledge that some of the uber-skilled players here IM each other, have lots of contact outside of 2+2, etc. -- and I don't doubt curtains et al are completely sincere when they say they disagree with what Zee has done, and that they agree it's cheating, etc. But I think it's fair to question if some posters (probably a cadre of posters, who are again all friendly) have had some level of knowledge that Zee multi-accounts but didn't alert Party. Failing to alert Party (if they have known for months, for instance) is very unethical as well, despite the inclination not to "rat out" people we are friendly with.

I'm not claiming that out-ing their friend as a cheater was ideal (again, IF they had known Zee was multi accounting), but turning a blind eye to cheating (or not alerting Party) certainly cost some players money. I certainly would have to think long and hard before I turned in a friend to Party for cheating. I'd like to think I would, but not having been in such a situation, that's easy for me to say.

Perhaps I'm way out in left field here. My apologies to all if I am (and my apologies to curtains and N 82 50 24, who I'm sure I've unfairly singled out -- but curtains had the unfortunate luck of Zee mentioning his name as someone he consulted with, and N 82 50 24 has indicated he has 'known' something).

[thedarknight]

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These actions are in my opinion borderline gray areas, but the honest truth is the sites are better off acting the way they have. To create a situation where it's acceptable to blurr the line is dangerous for the tourneys.

The fact of the matter is, even if these guys play 2 or 3 accounts the likelyhood that they end up at the same table in a 500 player event let alone a 5000 player event is relatively small. Also keep in mind there is diminished rewards with each additional account they play. Let's say first place in a $200 tourney is $100k and 2nd is $60k, they can get a 500x return on the first $200 buy in, and only have the opportunity for a 300x return on the second. As you can see there is an inherent cost associated with playing multiple accounts. In my opinion this cost exceeds any edge they may gain in the unlikely chance that two of their acounts wind up at the same table. I personally don't care too much if a player plays multiple accounts in the big multi tourneys cuz in my eyes 99.9% of the time it just adds to the prize pool. As a common practice it does however become a problem in small tourneys less than 100 people.

Like I said however, I agree with the web sites taking a strong stance against the practice, because it becomes dangerous not to. There are too many habitual line steppers out there, most of which need to be on a leash and this policy does just that.

I don't however consider Justin one of these players.

On Justin's behalf, I know the kid very well, and have grown to have much respect for him as a person, player and friend. I've been 3 handed with him in $1k sng's many times, and even tho we communicate on Instant Messenger, NEVER has he suggested any foul play (if anything that would be a convenient time no?). At the end of the sng's he usually goes completely quiet. While he can be a little brash, I think he's a good kid he was just trying to maximize his winnings in a grey area that until recently appeared to be acceptable behavior.

-Ed Moncada

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I guess say you were at neighboring tables at the WSOP, and could sign up for 2 entries. But you would never play at the same table you know..I guess it's ok.

[Lloyd]

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We're still waiting on the giga dirt. Anyone?

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This thread is about ZJ. Any further references to Giga will be deleted. If you want to gossip about him, go to NVG.

[JCCARL]

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I want to make it clear that I regret what I did,

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Justin,
You would have done well with this comment instead of your full statement. You don't sound sorry, you come across pointing a finger at just about everyone else except for Card Sharp Cook. You have a lot to learn.
Take some time, years, if need be, to think everything over, and maybe you'll realize what you did, and then you will be a better person. You cheated and you got what you deserved.
Carl