Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread

[DrewDevil]

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Now kindly provide a source showing that steroids do not help home run hitters hit more home runs.

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If you don't, I'll assume you don't have one. See how easy this is?

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Hey, I'm not the one making the assertion that his record is "tainted." The record is the record. If you want to dispute it, you are the one who has to provide the evidence, chief.

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I already have. Re-read thread.

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Edit--Also, I'm not claiming that Bonds is "clean." I don't know. I'm claiming I don't give a [censored] if he is or not. It makes no difference. "Cheating" has been a part of baseball for over 100 years. So what?

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I still don't know what this means, but I think you're the one who said no one would be in the HoF if cheaters weren't allowed in. I really want to know WTF you're talking about. What is all this cheating over the last 100 years?

And again, taking "greenies" or uppers was not against the rules until a couple of years ago, so it wasn't cheating.

[benza13]

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* Prior to age 35, Bonds hit one home run every 15.68 at bats -- an extremely good rate. Since age 35, he has hit one ever 8.77 at-bats -- almost unheard of. (Ruth averaged 1 homer per 11.76 AB over his career, and never did better than 1 in 10 during any 5-year stretch. The record is held by Mark McGwire, another suspected steroid user: 1 home run per 10.61 AB over his career, and 1 in 8.13 during his five peak years.)


it is odd how ungodly good at hitting HRs bonds got at the end of his career..maybe it was sheer skill and luck
but given the huge amount of circumstantial evidence that he used one would assume steroids played a factor.

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Don't forget that at this point in his career his walk totals shot up as he had no line up around him and intentionally walking Bonds or at least pitching around him became very common, driving down his total ABs.

[tuq]

RedBean,

This new avatar of yours has got to go, it's unsightly. Change back to the picture of you and your awesome pornstache plz.

[DrewDevil]

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Why do you even need proof?

Hank Aaron broke the record when everyone was doing greenies.

Bonds broke the record when everyone was/is doing steroids.

What's the [censored] difference?

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Greenies: not against the rules in 1974.

Steroids: against the rules in 2007.

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is Bonds still on steroids?

because the rules have changed recently

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Steroids: against the rules since 1991

Better?

[By-Tor]

no you haven't...re-read the thread.





do you have "re-read the thread" hotkey'd yet?

also...you suck at this game (and life in general).

[DrewDevil]

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no you haven't...re-read the thread.





do you have "re-read the thread" hotkey'd yet?

also...you suck at this game (and life in general).

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No, YOU suck! Hahaha, I rule.

[By-Tor]

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no you haven't...re-read the thread.





do you have "re-read the thread" hotkey'd yet?

also...you suck at this game (and life in general).

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No, YOU suck! Hahaha, I rule.

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nope...re-read the thread.

[CharlieDontSurf]

So we've firmly established 3 things

1. RedBean is an idiot

2. Bonds was awesome prior to becoming a steroid junkie, and he still would have been awesome without it...but it is debatable if he would have broken the single season record or the overall HR record without steroids. That being said it is still a remarkable achievement if somewhat tainted.

3. MLB and baseball is meh in general.

[tuq]

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Tub

I think their point is that Barry Bonds with or without steroids was one of the top 3 players of all time. Players play in the environment that is presented to them. Babe Ruth did not play against African Americans, Aaron played with Leaded coffee, Bonds played during a time when most players were on steroids.

The guy is a jerk, that much is clear, but to discount his achievements because of that is wrong. Ty Cobb and other early players were much worse people than Barry Bonds is, and they are mostly remembered as great players. Barry is the greatest player of his generation easily and people will remember that he was a jerk, but eventually the steroid thing will be forgotten once the evidence clearly shows how pervasive they were.

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Oh yeah, I agree with all of this, or am certainly not knowledgeable about the subject to argue otherwise, let's put it that way. I'm trying to stay out of the steroid debate thing b/c it's exhausting, but was rather baffled at certain non-RedBean, non-Giant fans who have taken to championing his cause. Very Skip Bayless of them IMO.

[RedBean]

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He admitted taking a substance that he thought was flaxseed oil but was actually steroids.


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Correction: A substance the authors BELIEVED to be steroids based on their interpretation of circumstantial evidence. Key distinction.

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even though no one has ever disputed that it was in fact steroids. Not even Bonds.


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Didn't you say at one time you are studying or have studied law?

You do realize that the defense does not get to present evidence at grand jury to refute the prosecutions evidence?

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Also, steroids were banned from MLB by commissioner Fay Vincent in 1991, though there was no testing until recently. So using steroids has been against the rules and therefore cheating since 1991.

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Correction: "illegal drugs, including illegal steroids."

Call it semantics, but lawfully prescribed steroids, not to mention HGH which is not a steroid, were not against the rules of the game.

And considering that Bonds has not been allowed to present his side yet....who knows what sort of surprises you're in for.... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]