****Official 2007 NY Mets NL East Champs Thread****

[Needle77]

If the shift was on it was a double play, in regards to Delgado's hit. It was a groundball that went between the 1st basemen and the 2nd basemen.

[James282]

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My point is much more that Willie knows his bench guys are going to need to step up in big situations as the season progresses. He is not going to let Gotay, Gomez, Newhan rot on the bench and then ask them to produce in August and September.


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They don't have to rot. They can get their ABs in low leverage situations or in situations when they are absolutely needed like pinch hitting late in games. Gomez I don't mind, because he potentially has a future as a big contributor. But David Newhan should never get at bats unless absolutely necessary since he is likely the worst option the team has. I understand what you are saying regarding the 'idea' of today. I'm saying it was handled stupidly. When the Mets are in a position to play a 4 inning game where every run matters so so much, they need to attack it. The 'mental' aspect can easily be changed if you establish that that isn't how things are going to be run. All of those others things aside.....


THE METS HAVE A DAY OFF ON MONDAY! What is so tough about a 3 game 'stretch' vs. the Yankees over the weekend? Is there something intrinsically more demanding about swinging a bat, running around the bases, and chasing after fly balls when the yankees happen to be in the other dugout? For the bullpen, you have an argument - for the position players, you and Willie and anybody else is grabbing at straws.

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But so far the results have shown that Willie -- much more often than not -- knows how to handle his team.

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The results have absolutely not shown anything of the sort. Getting lucky following random 'hunches' here and there does not show good decision making. Good decisions are made before we have the benefit of looking at the results. Willie is not awful or anything, but justifying his bad decisions because they miraculously and luckily worked out doesn't help your argument.

[JordanIB]

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My point is much more that Willie knows his bench guys are going to need to step up in big situations as the season progresses. He is not going to let Gotay, Gomez, Newhan rot on the bench and then ask them to produce in August and September.


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They don't have to rot. They can get their ABs in low leverage situations or in situations when they are absolutely needed like pinch hitting late in games.

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And my belief is that they need their AB's in high-leverage situations, else they are essentially rotting.

Last year in April and May Valentin and Chavez were the trash off the bench that everyone was screaming to keep there, sit there and rot and maybe get their AB's in the 8th and 9th innings of blowouts.

[samjjones]

I missed the game. Did Piniella's head explode like that dude in Scanners?

[niss]

I can't believe anyone is seriously questioning Willie resting the regulars today.

1. They played until 1 AM yesterday.
2. A game in May against a team not in your division is less important than any game against a team in your division -- and the Mets have the Braves after the Yankees.
3. A game in May against a team not in your division is less important than 10 games in September against anyone, at least for this team which figures to be in it down to the wire. The idea of resting all of these guys now -- particularly given the circumstances -- is so you can avoid having to rest them in September (and October).

Jeez.

[Wynton]

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Jeez.

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I agree with this.

[niss]

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Jeez.

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I agree with this.

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I'm here until Thursday. Try the veal.

[James282]

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I can't believe anyone is seriously questioning Willie resting the regulars today.

1. They played until 1 AM yesterday.
2. A game in May against a team not in your division is less important than any game against a team in your division -- and the Mets have the Braves after the Yankees.
3. A game in May against a team not in your division is less important than 10 games in September against anyone, at least for this team which figures to be in it down to the wire. The idea of resting all of these guys now -- particularly given the circumstances -- is so you can avoid having to rest them in September (and October).

Jeez.

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shrug you just fire off all these insane assumptions that somehow playing 3-4 innings for 2 more guys(all i was suggesting, mind you) will somehow effect 10 GAMES IN SEPTEMBER!? Wright and Beltran still took ABs, 1 fewer than they would have if they had been in the game from the 6th on...so your argument is that standing out in the field for the additional 3-4 innings would have caused them to lose the ability to play next week vs. the braves or in september or october? Surely guys need rest, but listen to this, because it's the last time I'll say it.

YOU CAN REST GUYS IN GAMES LIKE LAST NIGHT's WHERE YOU ARE UP 7-0 INSTEAD OF RESTING THEM IN 1-1 GAMES IN THE 6TH INNING. YOU CAN REST GUYS IN ANY NUMBER OF SITUATIONS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR THAT WILL NOT HAVE VERY MATERIAL DIFFERENCES ON WHETHER YOUR TEAM WINS OR LOSES!

Consider this the absolute last time I'll engage in arguments with people who claim that what they are doing is seeing the big picture when in actuality they are simply exercising blind faith. The 'whole day off' argument is absolutely bogus and I won't ever address that, either. Today's game had a great result and the 9th inning was one of the most exciting in the last few years. In short - I agree that guys need rest, but think the way that they are getting this rest is so far from optimal that it should be painfully obvious to anyone who is willing to look past their own assumptions as to what managers "need" to do to keep their teams healthy.

[Triumph36]

james,

these concepts are all very nebulous - i don't think sabermetrics will ever come to measure such things. thus, i'm willing to take most managers' word for it on this one, since they're ex-players.

i do think having BOTH wright and reyes out of the lineup is basically throwing the game though.

[James282]

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james,

these concepts are all very nebulous - i don't think sabermetrics will ever come to measure such things. thus, i'm willing to take most managers' word for it on this one, since they're ex-players.

i do think having BOTH wright and reyes out of the lineup is basically throwing the game though.

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how about beltran too? i'm sure it's nebulous, but 95% of suboptimal game managing comes sheer resistance to change and nothing else. whatever, like I said I am done discussing it. some people have their opinions and that's fine, but their opinions aren't going to give me any solace when I see things that seem obviously silly to me happen in games. there are a billion things that managers do that i can't do...manage egos, speak from baseball experience, teach fundamentals properly, motivate a group of young egotistical adults, see quirks in mechanics and alter those things mid season or mid game. But some of the in game decisions laugh in the face of logic, reason, and an almost infinite amount of historical data to draw upon. And this is the easy stuff that 90% of people off the street can learn in a few months of study. But because of conventional wisdom they refuse to acknowledge it. If people can't see why it's more important to have Beltran and Wright batting and fielding in a game that is tied in the 6th inning than one where the Mets are up or down 5+ runs(which has happened several times very recently) then I don't know what else to say.

James