Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread

[MuresanForMVP]

RedBean, what will you do if the results are released and it's proven that Bonds used steroids beyond the shadow of a doubt?

[DrewDevil]

After jesusarenque hilarious post, I think I finally understand the strategy of the Bonds supporters.

You'll notice that he did not disagree or dispute my statement that steroids assist home run hitters, he instead asked for a source.

Similarly, Redbean has never denied that Bonds used steroids, he has denied that there is unassailable proof that Bonds used steroids.

Then, when people present with evidence and proof, the Bonds jock sniffers attack the technicalities of the evidence/proof, without having to actually make the ridiculous arguments that (a) Bonds is clean or (b) steroids don't make a difference for home run hitters.

So I'm not going to present any more evidence or proof until Redbean is willing to say that Bonds is clean, or jesus is willing to say that steroids don't assist HR hitters. Then they can start to present their own evidence and we'll see how it stacks up.

[By-Tor]

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So I'm not going to present any more evidence or proof until ...

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what have you provided up till now again??





...also, does these mean you will shut-up now??

[benza13]

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How many of his home runs do you account to steroid use? Has anyone seen a statistical analysis of his previous seasons done to determine where he would have likely ended up? He is clearly the greatest baseball player of all time, steroids or not.

What are the odds that A-rod breaks this record? He is only 32 years old.

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This Rob Neyer article puts his chances at roughly a coinflip assuming Bonds gets 800.

Basically if Alex can stay healthy for 8+ years he will break the record. If he can have the longevity of Bonds and Aaron he will put the record beyond reach for a long, long time.

[DrewDevil]

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So I'm not going to present any more evidence or proof until ...

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what have you provided up till now again??





...also, does these mean you will shut-up now??

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Re-read thread plskthx.

Also, no.

[DrewDevil]

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How many of his home runs do you account to steroid use? Has anyone seen a statistical analysis of his previous seasons done to determine where he would have likely ended up?

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There's pretty much no way of knowing this because it's so dependent on speculation. Earlier in the thread there was some discussion of this, and it seems reasonable to conclude he would have gotten to 600 and maybe to 700, but it's impossible to say for sure.

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He is clearly the greatest baseball player of all time, steroids or not.

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No.

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What are the odds that A-rod breaks this record? He is only 32 years old.

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30 per year for 10 years gives him 800 at age 42, and I think I read he's averaged 43 HR per year for his career, so he's got a good chance to do it.

[jesusarenque]

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I'm still hoping I can get someone to respond from the "This record is steroid-enhanced" camp to clarify that statement a bit. It is one of those comments that seems logical and rational if you only think about it for like ten seconds, but is actually incredibly stupid and incorrect when you think about it for eleven or more. I hear it a lot with regards to modern equipment and weight training, and it is just as stupid there.

This record was not steroid-enhanced. It might be tainted, because thats a subjective, public opinion type deal, but it wasn't enhanced.

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I don't understand what you are saying.

Steroids absolutely enhance the effectiveness of the home run hitter. Are you seriously disputing THAT?

And please, don't trot out the strawman "Steroids don't help you connect with the baseball," because no one's ever claimed that they do. They just make the ball go farther and faster when you connect.

Also, weight training and superior nutrition are not against the rules, which is how sentient beings distinguish between them and steroids on the culpability scale.

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RedBean u honestly believe Maris breaks the single season record without playing eight more games than Ruth?

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fyp

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[By-Tor]

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So I'm not going to present any more evidence or proof until ...

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what have you provided up till now again??





...also, does these mean you will shut-up now??

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Re-read thread plskthx.

Also, no.

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wait...so you have found the evidence and proof that neither a grand juror or the commish's office has been able to???

ZZZZOMG!!!11 you should call george mitchell now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[benza13]

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Except he half admitted it about 7 times when it was clear he was flat-out lying. He is scum.

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LMAO at your take on this compared to your take on Barry.

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From what little I've read, it seems like Thayer and kyleb just love to play devil's advocate on this Bonds thing. They are wise in the way of baseball, and can't stand to share the same anti-Barry sentiment that the media is telling Joe Six Pack in Des Moines that he should feel. So they adopt a stance that would make Skip Bayless blush and which they almost certainly don't really believe. IOW, I think Thayer and kyleb are smarter than they're coming off here.



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Tub

I think their point is that Barry Bonds with or without steroids was one of the top 3 players of all time. Players play in the environment that is presented to them. Babe Ruth did not play against African Americans, Aaron played with Leaded coffee, Bonds played during a time when most players were on steroids.

The guy is a jerk, that much is clear, but to discount his achievements because of that is wrong. Ty Cobb and other early players were much worse people than Barry Bonds is, and they are mostly remembered as great players. Barry is the greatest player of his generation easily and people will remember that he was a jerk, but eventually the steroid thing will be forgotten once the evidence clearly shows how pervasive they were.

[jesusarenque]

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They just make the ball go farther and faster when you connect.


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Source?

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HAHAHAHAHA

You really want to debate whether or not steroids actually work for home run hitters?

Here's another statement I'll make:

The world is round.

Do you require a source for that one, too?


HAHAHAHAHA

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I'll assume by your answer that you don't have a source.

Here is one source as evidence the earth is round:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth

Man, that was easy. Now kindly provide a source showing how much farther/faster Bonds hit the ball because of steroids, and how many extra home runs (approximately) he gained via steroids.