Neteller Update...

[egoldy]

Based upon a variety of discussions with different attorneys, we are gathering some very interesting new information and questions that need to be answered. I was asked not to post some of these issues until they are thought through a little more and confirmed so we don't come across as "conspiracy theorists" or crying wolf. I've been told by Monday we'll release what the group has uncovered.

However, one of the more obvious things that was already brought up on the NCC board was the following:

It is still unclear what the purpose of the whole "plan" is all about. Assuming the DOJ confiscated $55M of the money in transit between Neteller and US Bank Accounts -- how much OTHER money was still in Neteller and is still being held? $100M? $150M? $200M? Neteller has been not been up front about this number at all and (as has been stated on other boards), there seems to be no reason why Neteller shouldn't be able to release the funds (outside of the $50M) to the US members. Bodog and other sites can cut checks, why can't Neteller? Why 75 days for a plan?

The obvious possible reason for that is that Neteller is negotatiating with the DOJ to get the $55M back as well as to keep its officials from being prosecuted. The key thing that Neteller has to negotiate with is its member's information.

So, will Neteller release nothing? The amount in the account now? All transfers over the past year? ALL transfers ever done?

I'm on the lower stakes of things and have only really been using Neteller for a little over a year. While I decided to report all my gambling income this year to keep things 100% clean, I know that some have not -- and would not be thrilled to see 1,2,3, etc. years of Neteller transactions result in backtaxes, penalties, and fees. The group wants our money back -- but also wants the privacy of its members retained.

That's a more obvious issue and I apologize for dropping teasers about other things, but I was asked not to post anything until a few more answers have been gathered.

I will just stress that until you know:
1) exactly when you're getting your money back from Neteller
2) how MUCH of your money you're getting back (don't assume you're getting all of it)
2) what information is being provided to who in exchange for your money

This thing is not over and we should not sit back and wait 75 days to find that out..

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks sorry for the misstatement - I am not an attorney and haven't been investigating this course of action. We have had members who have been in touch with them and they are organizing their thoughts and findings for the group...

Based upon your knowledge, what should the group be pursuing and what are the pros/cons of mass tort vs. class action?

Thanks..

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a member of your group and a lawyer. Do not file a suit. Right now there are only cons to that course of action. They put out a press release saying a plan will be in place in 75 days. That is the only progress we have had, but its good progress. If you file a suit the money will be tied up until that suit is resolved....that number is WAY more than 75 days. Please just let it play out....just because you have a bunch of money locked up there does not mean you have a right to know everything that they are discussing/planning with the DOJ. I think the continuance coupled with the new press release shows that they are working toward a resolution. Mucking it up with a suit is just going to cost everyone time and legal fees and possibly force them into bankruptcy which would be tragic for everyone. Give navigant the time to compile whatever it is the DOJ wants to look at before you go in there mucking it all up.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
possibly force them into bankruptcy

[/ QUOTE ]

Neteller is not going Bankrupt...

I agree with the rest of what you said.

[egoldy]

I appreciate the opinion..

btw, Comparitively, I actually have a small amount of money in there.

My only question is -- if we were to threaten or even file a lawsuit, if the money is released or a solid plan was to be put forward, the lawsuit would go away immediately. So, I'm not clear how the possibility or threatening of a lawsuit would muck things up....

I agree that a lawsuit would take longer than 75 or 150 days and is highly undesirable.

However, I'm not convinced that Neteller or Navigant has our best interests at heart. I also think we have more questions than answers -- as nice as their press release was.

I just have a baaaaad feeling that if we don't push, we'll be sitting here in 75 days on THEIR terms based upon what they decided to release and do... They could delay again -- 75 becomes 150 becomes 225 days...

So, no. I'm not going to let things play out.. and I think there are many other reasons (forthcoming) that you won't want us to either... If Neteller defines their "75 days" and answers a few questions about privacy and why they can't release the funds, maybe we'll sit back. But right now, I simply don't trust them.

[Sniper]

egoldy,

If you are interested in Neteller's privacy policy, why don't you just read it... it has always said that they will release information to gov't agencies on request... Navigant is in there looking "forensicly" (ie they are looking at everything).

Neteller can't give us money now, likely for 2 pretty obvious reasons... no one will deal with them and the gov't has asked them not to. They need a transaction pathway cleared. It would be a disaster, if they simply cut checks that no one could cash. The $55 Mil worth of transaction that were stopped, in process, and are now locked up, are also an issue... why would they want to potentially increase the size of that number?

As was pointed out... you need to be careful that your actions do not delay the process...

[bossplayer]

I believe that at this point Neteller would use any excuse possible to delay payments and earn more interest. ANY excuse.

The auto-disclosure to governmental agencies might still only be in direct response to an investigation, rather than just offering up all info to any government on a 'just because we can' basis. Not sure though.

[LinusKS]

However/whenever a lawsuit is filed, it needs to be filed in the Isle of Man/UK.

If you're talking to lawyers, you need to be talking to UK lawyers. Americans can't help you.

[egoldy]

Sniper --

I have read their policy - it's similar to every one else's out there. So, what ARE they going to provide? That's the question. From my selfish perspective, it doesn't matter, but I'm trying to get the question answered for others..

In terms of idea of checks, I guess it's not obvious to me. Why can Bodog and every other poker site issue checks and Neteller can't? What makes Neteller different? And if it's because the government SPECIFICALLY told Neteller not to, what is going to be different 75 days from now? Is a check the same as a wire transfer? Are you / they saying that in 75 days, they will have:

a) Received "approval" from the US government to pay back their members?
b) Contacted every single banking institution and ensured that the money will be "accepted" or cashed"..

If that's true, then why can't they say it..

Believe me, I don't want to slow down the process - I just want to make sure that there IS a process. We are merely asking questions right now that I think we deserve answers to. And I don't think that asking questions and applying pressure will slow things down.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that at this point Neteller would use any excuse possible to delay payments and earn more interest. ANY excuse.

The auto-disclosure to governmental agencies might still only be in direct response to an investigation, rather than just offering up all info to any government on a 'just because we can' basis. Not sure though.

[/ QUOTE ]

The hit to Neteller's reputation is worth more than any interest they may earn... they are not delaying to earn interest.

What part of the fact that a forensic examination has been going on for quite some time already, didn't you understand?

[egoldy]

No idea why you're defensive about getting answers to simple questions...

This sounds like the "We should support the War in Iraq because the president says we should" argument..

Just because Neteller says they're "undergoing a forensic examination" and that "it's going to take some time" -- doesn't mean I have to say, "ok, sir, just let me know when that's all done"...

I doubt they're delaying for interest reasons - but I'm not clear why they ARE delaying...

Bottom line, are you pushing for a "wait and see" approach? I'm pushing for a "apply pressure and get answers" approach.. I don't think that anything the group does will prevent your approach from working -- even if it went as far as to file a lawsuit.