Ftp stole my money

[BurnleyMik]

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phish, you keep referring to a "malicious employee". Is there a case you know of in regards to this? I agree that unless full tilt is prepared to explain their procedures or put something in writing to show serious improvement then they are flawed. I think there needs to be somethign to overlook ALL the online poker sites. A body set up to protect players, but at the same time look into cases such as fraud. Any further ideas on this??

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I have an idea that only Doug, the WSEX GM and occaionally stars comes on here and gives us any communication. Much more than all the other sites who we never hear from. The one that comes on the most gets hit by a barage of flack from idiots that think they are going to be able to dictate policy for these sites. Be happy you get some response and stop all the whining or whine about the sites we never hear from and have no clue what they do if anything to protect us. This is online poker with all its perils of little to no communication. You know that going in. Take your lumps if your screwed or play live. People like eric and the other whiners are the reason that bills get passed. Live with it or play live. Until it is regulated and allowed in the US all your suggestions of what you want sites to do are silly. They can come on line and tell all you want to hear and you would never know if it was true. You kiddies really need to grow up.

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Now that truly is a pathetic attitude to companies that hold your money. Would you allow banks to work in this way? All these guys including myself, are asking for is an improvement which will benefit all players everywhere. So if you are happy taking uneccessary risks with your money then that is your choice, but I would prefer the improvements.

[LeeLoo]

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Well, if FTPDoug comes back and tells us that all fund seizures are fully and independently reviewed by a separate party, then I'd be 95% satisfied. That's all he has to do. I'd take his word for it.

But absent such safeguard, all your money really is at the mercy of one potentially malicious employee or a simple mistake.

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This is the funniest post I've seen in a while. Talk about contradicting oneself.

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How's that? I've already said I trust FTPDoug's integrity. If he assures me that such safeguards are in place, then I would believe him and can sleep more soundly at night.

But if such safeguards are not in place, then you and I are at the mercy of any one of a number of unknown employees who may make mistakes or act in bad faith. And we'd have no avenue of appeal.

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Perhaps Doug works in the fraud department and is the one doing these investigations and the taking the funds. You don't know him. Thats the point of the post above. While I don't believe this is the case I was merely pointing out that what you say contradicts itself when in the same breath you talk about unknown or malicious employees.

[Gotmilk]

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phish, you keep referring to a "malicious employee". Is there a case you know of in regards to this? I agree that unless full tilt is prepared to explain their procedures or put something in writing to show serious improvement then they are flawed. I think there needs to be somethign to overlook ALL the online poker sites. A body set up to protect players, but at the same time look into cases such as fraud. Any further ideas on this??

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I have an idea that only Doug, the WSEX GM and occaionally stars comes on here and gives us any communication. Much more than all the other sites who we never hear from. The one that comes on the most gets hit by a barage of flack from idiots that think they are going to be able to dictate policy for these sites. Be happy you get some response and stop all the whining or whine about the sites we never hear from and have no clue what they do if anything to protect us. This is online poker with all its perils of little to no communication. You know that going in. Take your lumps if your screwed or play live. People like eric and the other whiners are the reason that bills get passed. Live with it or play live. Until it is regulated and allowed in the US all your suggestions of what you want sites to do are silly. They can come on line and tell all you want to hear and you would never know if it was true. You kiddies really need to grow up.

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That's not true, policy can be dictated through the pocketbook. I don't care enough about the issue to put a big dent in them, but their slow customer support and these issues have really been a huge deterrent for me to move money over there and give them serious play. I'll still play on Full Tilt as I always did, occasionally for a tournament or two. But in terms of giving them my every day business, I'm just not interested in supporting them. Has nothing to do with ericjones' innocence or guilt, I've been annoyed by the way they handle the little things for a while, and this is just another incident in a long line for me.

It's a big step of trust to let some large off shore nebulous business entity hold tens of thousands of dollars for you, and it would be nice if Full Tilt did a little more to make me feel 100% comfortable.

That said, this thread has degenerated into ericjones, ericjones' shill, and a bunch of name calling. As I don't really care about ericjones or his guilt or innocence, but am more interested in the larger picture, I think I am going to exit stage left.

[phish]

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phish, you keep referring to a "malicious employee". Is there a case you know of in regards to this? I agree that unless full tilt is prepared to explain their procedures or put something in writing to show serious improvement then they are flawed. I think there needs to be somethign to overlook ALL the online poker sites. A body set up to protect players, but at the same time look into cases such as fraud. Any further ideas on this??

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Not specifically with regards to situations like this. But the fact is, people in certain positions can have a lot of power, and safeguards need to exist to prevent mistakes or the abuse of that power.
Police officers do plant evidence. Corporate Treasurers do embezzle. IRS agents can act maliciously and harass you unreasonably. etc.
All good financial institutions have procedures in place to prevent such incidents. If your broker steals your funds, you can certainly talk to his supervisor and get things set right. If your deposit gets credited to someone else's account, again you can alert them to investigate and fix.

But here, they say they found fraud (based on possibly only one person's investigation) and that's it. They've taken your money and there's nothing you can do about it. No independent review of evidence. No evidence presented to you. No one you can even talk to.

It is a seriously flawed system.

[LeeLoo]

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phish, you keep referring to a "malicious employee". Is there a case you know of in regards to this? I agree that unless full tilt is prepared to explain their procedures or put something in writing to show serious improvement then they are flawed. I think there needs to be somethign to overlook ALL the online poker sites. A body set up to protect players, but at the same time look into cases such as fraud. Any further ideas on this??

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I have an idea that only Doug, the WSEX GM and occaionally stars comes on here and gives us any communication. Much more than all the other sites who we never hear from. The one that comes on the most gets hit by a barage of flack from idiots that think they are going to be able to dictate policy for these sites. Be happy you get some response and stop all the whining or whine about the sites we never hear from and have no clue what they do if anything to protect us. This is online poker with all its perils of little to no communication. You know that going in. Take your lumps if your screwed or play live. People like eric and the other whiners are the reason that bills get passed. Live with it or play live. Until it is regulated and allowed in the US all your suggestions of what you want sites to do are silly. They can come on line and tell all you want to hear and you would never know if it was true. You kiddies really need to grow up.

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Now that truly is a pathetic attitude to companies that hold your money. Would you allow banks to work in this way? All these guys including myself, are asking for is an improvement which will benefit all players everywhere. So if you are happy taking uneccessary risks with your money then that is your choice, but I would prefer the improvements.

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Of course I would like improvements. You need to read the post again tho. You obviuosly did not understand any of it.

[BurnleyMik]

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phish, you keep referring to a "malicious employee". Is there a case you know of in regards to this? I agree that unless full tilt is prepared to explain their procedures or put something in writing to show serious improvement then they are flawed. I think there needs to be somethign to overlook ALL the online poker sites. A body set up to protect players, but at the same time look into cases such as fraud. Any further ideas on this??

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I have an idea that only Doug, the WSEX GM and occaionally stars comes on here and gives us any communication. Much more than all the other sites who we never hear from. The one that comes on the most gets hit by a barage of flack from idiots that think they are going to be able to dictate policy for these sites. Be happy you get some response and stop all the whining or whine about the sites we never hear from and have no clue what they do if anything to protect us. This is online poker with all its perils of little to no communication. You know that going in. Take your lumps if your screwed or play live. People like eric and the other whiners are the reason that bills get passed. Live with it or play live. Until it is regulated and allowed in the US all your suggestions of what you want sites to do are silly. They can come on line and tell all you want to hear and you would never know if it was true. You kiddies really need to grow up.

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Now that truly is a pathetic attitude to companies that hold your money. Would you allow banks to work in this way? All these guys including myself, are asking for is an improvement which will benefit all players everywhere. So if you are happy taking uneccessary risks with your money then that is your choice, but I would prefer the improvements.

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Of course I would like improvements. You need to read the post again tho. You obviuosly did not understand any of it.

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Yes, but you are saying that we should stop "whining", as you call it, and just except that its a risk, but why as the customers, should we? Bills are not passed because of "whiners" they are passed because not enough people fight for what they believe. Exactly the same traits you were portraying here.

[LeeLoo]

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phish, you keep referring to a "malicious employee". Is there a case you know of in regards to this? I agree that unless full tilt is prepared to explain their procedures or put something in writing to show serious improvement then they are flawed. I think there needs to be somethign to overlook ALL the online poker sites. A body set up to protect players, but at the same time look into cases such as fraud. Any further ideas on this??

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an idea that only Doug, the WSEX GM and occaionally stars comes on here and gives us any communication. Much more than all the other sites who we never hear from. The one that comes on the most gets hit by a barage of flack from idiots that think they are going to be able to dictate policy for these sites. Be happy you get some response and stop all the whining or whine about the sites we never hear from and have no clue what they do if anything to protect us. This is online poker with all its perils of little to no communication. You know that going in. Take your lumps if your screwed or play live. People like eric and the other whiners are the reason that bills get passed. Live with it or play live. Until it is regulated and allowed in the US all your suggestions of what you want sites to do are silly. They can come on line and tell all you want to hear and you would never know if it was true. You kiddies really need to grow up.

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Now that truly is a pathetic attitude to companies that hold your money. Would you allow banks to work in this way? All these guys including myself, are asking for is an improvement which will benefit all players everywhere. So if you are happy taking uneccessary risks with your money then that is your choice, but I would prefer the improvements.

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Of course I would like improvements. You need to read the post again tho. You obviuosly did not understand any of it.

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Yes, but you are saying that we should stop "whining", as you call it, and just except that its a risk, but why as the customers, should we? Bills are not passed because of "whiners" they are passed because not enough people fight for what they believe. Exactly the same traits you were portraying here.

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You are right. Much is being accomplished with your ridiculous contradictions. If you want to talk about improving then talk about it with some thought behind it and not just air.

[ericjones]

Thats the thing, I think the people in the fraud department are lying not doug. I did give a valid reason for me having 2 accounts if you actually bothered to read and Doug confirmed it. I think due to the 2 1/2 month wait they knew I would never play on the site again so why not take my money as they knew they screwed up somehow somewhere to wait that long. Now if Doug answers some questions like I have requested(anything at all) and gives me some closure I will eat the words(not liking it ofcourse). Screaming you defrauded our site you defrauded our site means nothing to me, I doubt they would go thru the trouble of making up 1000+ hands thats why I want Doug to post them, or atleast those that don't jeapordize their investigation. Think im a fraudster or think what you want I will not stop till I get some closure. The ball is in your court Ftp.

[LeeLoo]

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As Doug says its how he understands it, which implies he was told the information rather than obtaining and reviewing it himself. But please doug comeback and prove me wrong if that is the case.

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How will he do this. If by some miracle he is able to prove it to your satifaction then I guess he would have to prove something else to someone else if they are not satified.

This is all so dumb.

[BurnleyMik]

lol@ leo...ok then..haha. You have your opinion I have mine. I think we should push for improvements, not just wait until they happen. if eric is as guilty as a lot of you guys think (including doug) then they should have no problems with providing the evidence. FTP should just clear the air IMO. At least the guy deserves some closeure to the incident. Then we need to push for improvements in Online poker cmpany policies in regards to these matters.