My Side of the Story

[TwoOuter]

deaders,

The issues of contention are all about interpretations of events, including who said what. If you're going to express the general meaning of something, not actually what you said, then just drop the quotes.

Ms. Rousso is a law student. Surely she knows the importance of such things.

[drewjustdrew]

When did poker meet Melrose Place?

This whole storyline is lame.

[DarthIgnurnt]

Clearly there is only one way to settle this issue.

I believe a tickle fight is in order. I shall sew up some costumes.

[thedarknight]

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deaders,

The issues of contention are all about interpretations of events, including who said what. If you're going to express the general meaning of something, not actually what you said, then just drop the quotes.

Ms. Rousso is a law student. Surely she knows the importance of such things.

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there's not much interpretation for a slowroll. we need jeanie back in here to start fueling the fire again.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Hey thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Yes, there was an italian soccer player at my table on day three...

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thought that was you. anyways, hope he wasn't too slow for you.

btw, everyone else: she either randomly knew that an Italian guy was wearing a soccer jacket at VR and BG's table, or this is Vanessa. I know which is more likely [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Rottersod]

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While your post is eloquent, it is of course your side of the story. I highly doubt you'd actually 100% fess up to slow rolling and other poor table etiquette if you were actually engaged in them.

I wasn't there of course so I have no idea what was actually said or done, so I can't cast judgements or defend you. However people rarely just make up a whole bunch of stuff like this.

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I find this amusing to finally go to the third page and uncover the only sensible response in this thread. You fellow 2+2'rs are that easily influenced? I laud Vanessa's courage to come onto the forums and state her side of the story. I extend my congratulations to your finish. But to my fellow 2+2'rs how do you guys easily buy into this? Is there not a vigilant eye around here?

"Great post!! Ignore those childish remarks!! Everyone's always hating on the successful people!"

You guys seem to forget it's not just a bunch of vengeful posters criticizing Vanessa out of pure $hits and giggles. Are you guys saying Jean Gluck and Liz are fabricating lies? Vanessa's post has implied this. What about the other reports, like the J high flush vs. Q high flush incident? Are people just making up stories out of pure jealousy? And why on Vanessa? Why did no one rag on Erica or Evelyn if the poker world is so mysogynistic? What's the "accuser's" motive? We're obviously not getting the real story, and I guess we never will. But it's not like everyday there are some character assasins waiting to pounce on the game's new star. We have rather credible sources that are making claims.

I'm not saying her post is BS, but like a poster said, it's not like she would admit to slow rolling or bad etiquette. No one likes to admit they're a bad person or consciously doing something wrong. Who's going to admit to that? Usually people will respond for their acts in the, "Oh it didn't happen," "Oh I didn't know," "Oh that's total BS..people are out to hate on me," defense. Only Vanessa knows herself, and if she's content with her actions then so be it.

I'm not here on some crusade to belittle Vanessa's accomplishments. She sounds like a very talented woman. Many posters have also said she's very nice as well. I was rooting for her to make the final 6 and maybe even win it. It would be great for poker. But what's not good for poker is bad behavior and tv personalities demanding the spotlight. I'm not saying that's what you are, in fact I wish these reports are false. But if they aren't, then I'm glad Jean and Liz have spoken up about it. We don't need anymore Hellmuth's and Matusow's. We will never stop these types of people from playing the game. However, we should at least give credit to the people who truly perform and handle success with class.

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The reason that I (and probably many others here) thought her post was good was that the complaints against her seemed petty. I've seen these things happen so many times and even though I get angry when they do (a slowroll for example) I forget about it a few minutes later. For someone to come on here and start posting all this stuff about one person in one tournement strikes me as jealeousy and nothing else. I appreciated Vanessa's response to each one of the complaints and even though she is biased there's still a good possibility that other people saw things differently because they were not involved in the hands, as she was.

[Rottersod]

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Before we keep continuing this on and on, this is just a classic he/she said. In this case, the players said/she said. Jean and Liz aren't just make up $hit out of thin air, also it may not have been bad as what they have stated too.

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The problem I have with this line of thinking is that Jean said she wanted to punch Vanessa in the face. Where does she get off saying that? The things that happened definitely were not as bad as they stated. Freddy backs Vanessa's side of the story regarding asking to see the called hand and who cares if she shakes someones hand at the end? The two other things that they complain about (slowroll and JJ/QQ) could easily have been misinterpreted by them.

[cjamsc]

Vanessa...I would have given her more time,but understand your justification.Secondly, I think this should be between you and Liz,and should have been dealt with face to face during a break. I don't understand why Ms. Gluck is getting involved.I think it was great that two women finished so high. Hopefully,a woman will win on the WPT soon.

[suzzer99]

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The reason that I (and probably many others here) thought her post was good was that the complaints against her seemed petty. I've seen these things happen so many times and even though I get angry when they do (a slowroll for example) I forget about it a few minutes later. For someone to come on here and start posting all this stuff about one person in one tournement strikes me as jealeousy and nothing else. I appreciated Vanessa's response to each one of the complaints and even though she is biased there's still a good possibility that other people saw things differently because they were not involved in the hands, as she was.

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Petty jealousy of a pro? On this site? Never heard of such a thing. You must be thinking of a different 2+2.

[MicroBob]

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Good post Vanessa.

The issue is not slow-rolling or asking to see hands. The issue is the double standard that so-called established pros place on newer players. It appears to me as if Vanessa made every attempt to correct and/or apologize for any potential impropriety at the table. Rather than say, "OK newbie -- no harm, no foul," the reactions varied pretty much based on the bitterness of the people involved.

If on The Circuit James Van Alstyne did talk about Vanessa not shaking his hand, he should be popped upside his head. Who cares. I watched Layne Flack in the 2004 US Poker Championships pretty much run away from the table after being busted out. He was not happy about being busted and I don't remember that being a topic of conversation -- no harm no foul.

The double-standards that the established players place on up-and-comers is nothing more than bitterness. They love the big prize pools that come with large fields but show nothing but animosity if someone breaks into their circle. And God forbid if that someone happens to be a woman.

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Hijack:
I think all the hand-shaking on every single bust-out is a bit excessive anyway.

I have played in 4 'major' events and I think I maybe have occasionally shook the hand of the guy next to me after I was busted (if we had been conversational for a few hours or something like that).


Maybe I'll sometimes acknowledge a couple guys on the other side of the table with a wave and a 'good-luck'. But I'm not going to run around and shake every guys' hand. I'm assuming they just want to get on with the game anyway rather than wish me their fondest farewells.


These weren't final-tables though where things will be a bit more emotional.

But I've had guys come up and shake my hand after they've been busted just because they felt obligated to shake everyone's hand at the table. Didn't matter if I had no idea who they were because I had ust been moved to the table.
All seems kind of silly to me much of the time.