More Bonds

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
Aaron had a minor power surge after 35 due to the Brave's move to Atlanta


[/ QUOTE ]

It took a while to take effect then, because they moved to Atlanta when Aaron was 32. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
If you feel this is comparable to someone's head growing three sizes..

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiosity, what size hat do you think Bonds wears?

Would you believe me if I told you Bochy's head is 5-6 sizes bigger than Bonds'?

[Triumph36]

pepper:

Atlanta Fulton County Stadium was at an elevation of 1,200 feet, making it the highest stadium in the league at the time - home run rates were increased there.

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
Hank clearly wasn't the only one who experienced a dramatic increase in his home run rate post 1968, on the road, away, whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a whole, offense was drastically up, everyone knows that.

If you'd really like, we can break it down by age across the board, and what you'll see is that after the mound was lowered, homeruns by the young bucks did most indeed go up......but the guys aged around 35 and older like Mays, Banks, Clemente, they declined as "expected".

Except for one of them.

Shortening the mound 5 inches DOES boost offense, but it DOESN'T give a guy standing 60 feet away a power surge after age 35, when everyone else around the league at the comparable age continues to decline.

[FireStorm]

Not sure what Bruce Bochy's head size has to do with anything here, and no I don't have precise measurements on Bond's head size. Have a look at him 10, 12, 15, 20 years ago, versus 2001 thru now. The bottom line is, Aaron's power numbers have nothing whatsoever to do with Bond's steroid use. Apples and oranges thrown around by clowns looking to justify what Bonds has done. I suppose Game Of Shadows is a made up fairy tale?

[MikeyPatriot]

It's hilarious how people don't understand what RedBeans is trying to say. He isn't arguing that Bonds could never have used steroids. He's simply arguing 1) Bonds late power surge isn't unprecedented, 2) Bonds is one of the most gifted and special players ever, and in addition takes care of himself and studies the game religiously in the offseason, and 3) if he did take steroids, they probably didn't have as big an impact on Bonds (or other players) as everyone likes to believe.

[FireStorm]

Clemente batted .345 in the season he turned 35 (August). He then followed this with .352, .341, and .312 in his final season at age 38. Two of his three career .400+ OBP seasons came during this time, and he slugged .556 in 1970, nearly a career high.

Banks power numbers suffered a bit, but the man still managed to bang out successive seasons of 23, 32, and 23 HR, driving in 106 runs at age 38.

Please breakdown for us how these are such substantial declines. These guys didn't go poof and disappear, champ.

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
If you think that measuring Hank Aaron's stats from three or four cherry picked seasons in order to somehow justify what Barry has done, you're an even bigger idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, that's not what I am doing. It's a little deeper exercise than that.

I am cherry picking Aaron's late career surge that made him the HR King.... and in other's zeal to nullify Bond's accomplishments in comparision.... I am watching in amazement as several folks are tearing apart Hank accomplishments and attributing his numbers to parks, mounds, fences, and expansion.

To read this thread, it's almost as if many would believe 755 is "tainted" and Hank didn't really earn them outright, but was helped along by every favorable condition imaginable.

And they aren't doing it because they're mad at Hank. They are mitigating his numbers without even realizing it, all because they'll even knock over Hank if it offers a chance to take a swipe at Barry.

Which is kind of what I was getting at...I'm cherry-picking Hanks late career numbers to prove this point:

Some folks will do anything to try to nullify Bond's accomplishments, even at the expense of the Hammer's.

[FireStorm]

The argument that they didn't help anyone all that much is weak as hell. If this is the case, why are people STILL looking for covert ways to take them? Not much sense in seeking out steroids for use unless the presumption is they will increase performance dramatically.

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure what Bruce Bochy's head size has to do with anything here, and no I don't have precise measurements on Bond's head size.


[/ QUOTE ]

I figured since you "looked at the pictures" and asserted he "obviously had a big head" that you would offer a guess as to the size of it. My bad, I thought you would play along and see how wrong you were.

But don't let the facts get in your way. You keep on believing what you read in SI. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]

Have a look at him 10, 12, 15, 20 years ago, versus 2001 thru now.


[/ QUOTE ]

Have a look at ANYONE from age 19 to 43. If they DON'T look different, then they are probably taking something.

[ QUOTE ]
The bottom line is, Aaron's power numbers have nothing whatsoever to do with Bond's steroid use.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. But did you see how quick people are to attribute Hank's numbers to advantageous conditions when they think it is a chance to nullify Bonds?

[FireStorm]

Interestingly enough, I don't read SI. I simply didn't gather a guess on head size because I'm not an expert on the subject. I know what I see though, which is apparently too much to handle for 2p2'ers. As for being 19 versus 43, how many people do you still having vastly increased head size in this time frame, coupled with huge increase in muscle mass, all while exponentially increasing their MLB power numbers?