too weird or too good?

[mike l.]

i could go either way with the hand. p/f is close. i know how to fold. i had AKo in the bb and folded for two cold the other day. guy had AA.

[mike l.]

"where is the inconsistency?"

if you get good at playing live a lot sometimes you can just pick up vibes and/or minute tell type things and recognize top pair is no good. nothing is hard and fast.

[mike l.]

it's not so much that my hand sucks against utg's range p/f, it's that my hand sucks against utg's range PLUS cold caller's range after the flop action.

like i was telling surfdoc yesterday, utg couldve showed up there p/f with 55 or A7s or whatever standard nonsense people sometimes decide to fire up utg in a typical live 20-40. i played with him like a round and a half, he didnt have to have a reasonable hand, although my sense was that he was more likely to than not.

cold caller's potential range was decently wide. he called 1.5 cold with 75s out of the sb in a not very multiway pot earlier in the session.

that's why my p/f is not an auto fold. the other reason is i play great, and they dont.

on the flop utg is still willing to bet into 3 people (remember bb) on that flop, and cold caller is quickly calling (remember my read was he would auto raise any decent draws). it felt like a trap to me, like a spot where i was supposed to like my hand but experience and vibes told me not to.

that's why i folded the flop. the strange thing about the hand for me was that i folded like i had nothing, i didnt study the players long and hard or even think much about it. it took me a couple beats to like sit there and say to myself "oh so that's how it is, it's that easy to just decide youre in a bad spot and fold top pair?"

what about my "outs"? only the Q is a sure out and it might be for half the pot. my runner runner straight and flush draws could cost me a lot to draw to or i could catch several cards that would possibly see me drawind dead. paired boards can be dangerous. furthermore if by some chance my hand is good now, it can easily be beat by the river against the sort of hands these two are most weighted to have. this is why when i called with QT, QJJ wasnt really the sort of flop i was hoping to catch.

so how do i know they arent going to show up with 55 and T9 by the end? that's where the feel thing comes in. and that i cant explain very well without people getting angry and accusing me of posting a bad results oriented thread. so ive explained the stuff i could.

[Victor]

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if their hand ranges are so narrow on this flop that you must fold then you should never ever call pf. you simply cant have it both ways.

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people who think this way will never be good live players.

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what determines a good live player? beating bell 30/60? comm 1/2? comm 4/8? etc.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
"where is the inconsistency?"

if you get good at playing live a lot sometimes you can just pick up vibes and/or minute tell type things and recognize top pair is no good. nothing is hard and fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

then you shud be playing a fckn huge range here. 56s, any pair.

also, you shud play live nl and see into ppls souls and take rolls.

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if their hand ranges are so narrow on this flop that you must fold then you should never ever call pf. you simply cant have it both ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

people who think this way will never be good live players.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this hand is against someone that you are familiar with but in some circumstances their play will differ then okay. There are a decent amount of people that play really straightforward normally, but when losing they will begin to open with 93s or some insane crap all over the place, so this hand needs to be played. If this hand was played against such an opponent and then postflop Mike decided for whatever reason that he was incorrect in thinking this was one of those times that this person is steaming heavily then I can almost buy it, even then this would be shakey. However all we know about this villain is that we know nothing. If we are going to play this hand against an unknown person then I really think we need to see a showdown most of the time. Otherwise I prefer to wait until someone else gets to showdown a few times against this guy or until I do it with a normal hand under normal circumstances.

I understand what you're saying and that live there are definitely times when the right play is so blatantly obvious even though it may seem weird at the same time, but I don't think we have nearly enough information for this to be one of those times.

[Victor]

also, if you feel that you are so much better that you can play a bunch of hands and make super good decisions then cool, play qts.

now, if you folded the flop bc you noticed with the way both players put chips in the pot, breathed, looked around, sipped water, swallowed, moved lips, changed posture, had a huge erection then cool, post in the low content thread.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if their hand ranges are so narrow on this flop that you must fold then you should never ever call pf. you simply cant have it both ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

people who think this way will never be good live players.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't agree with this.

[mike l.]

"then you shud be playing a fckn huge range here. 56s, any pair. also, you shud play live nl and see into ppls souls and take rolls."

youre probably right. im too laggy though.

[mike l.]

with you kids everything has to be black or white. either monster tellrific read or straight up internet trained mathism. but that's not how real life is.