Virginia apologizes for slavery... why?

[Poofler]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not a matter of choice or culpability. It's matter of unfair advantages and rectifying them. It's saying, "We're sorry we completely [censored] you guys up for many generations. We will try to make sure you have the means to better yourselves."

[/ QUOTE ]

But "we" didn't do anything. "They" (ancestors) did. An apology doesn't mean much, anyway. It doesn't rectify an unfair advantage by your logic. Reparations would; do you support them? If today's generation starts taking meaningful accountability for the effects of past generations, where do you draw the historical line?

[iron81]

I remember hearing an analogy about perpetual responsibility that makes sense. We can compare the government to a corporation:

When a corporation spills a bunch of chemicals 60 years ago, the corporation is responsible for cleaning up the mess today. It doesn't matter whether all of the employees at the time are dead. I think that government responsibility for permittng slave trade is similar.

[ligastar]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys seriously don't think there is some continuity in the state? Bunch of people die, now it's a totally different state? Sure things evolve, but I'm sure there are a ton of rich people still living in Virginia that are relatives of slave owners; some may even be politicians.

Political, social and economic structures don't just dissapear after one generation. Taking the stance that economic, politicial and social institutions don't affect one another is just ignorant. Virgina, as a political entity, remnants of which still exist to this day, royally [censored] over black people. An apology is quite befitting.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well put.

[Poofler]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember hearing an analogy about perpetual responsibility that makes sense. We can compare the government to a corporation:

When a corporation spills a bunch of chemicals 60 years ago, the corporation is responsible for cleaning up the mess today. It doesn't matter whether all of the employees at the time are dead. I think that government responsibility for permittng slave trade is similar.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to say sorry, go ahead, I just think it's meaningless coming from those who had no part in it. If my granddad was murdered, and the murderer's grandson said "sorry" his granddad killed my granddad, I don't think that helps any. And using your perpetual responsibility, should this grandson now pay reparations to me, since my Dad grew up poor without a father, couldn't go to school, and now I'm in the same situation? Joining Exxon and taking a salary hit from the cleanup expense is a voluntary decision. Being someone's ancestor isn't. Jesus, that sounded way too ACist.

[Vagos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You guys seriously don't think there is some continuity in the state? Bunch of people die, now it's a totally different state? Sure things evolve, but I'm sure there are a ton of rich people still living in Virginia that are relatives of slave owners; some may even be politicians.

Political, social and economic structures don't just dissapear after one generation. Taking the stance that economic, politicial and social institutions don't affect one another is just ignorant. Virgina, as a political entity, remnants of which still exist to this day, royally [censored] over black people. An apology is quite befitting.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well put.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea it's well put, but too bad he
1) didn't address the initial argument
and
2) misrepresented the position of poofler, pvn, some of the rest of us

Virginia doesn't take any actions, in 1850 or in present day. The people in Virginia take actions. We aren't arguing that their actions have no effect on future generations (a strawman you attributed to our camp), we're just saying the people that live in Viriginia today are not responsible. To claim they are is beyond ridiculous.

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
Virginia doesn't take any actions, in 1850 or in present day. The people in Virginia take actions. We aren't arguing that their actions have no effect on future generations (a strawman you attributed to our camp), we're just saying the people that live in Viriginia today are not responsible. To claim they are is beyond ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

If all that happened is that a hundred old guys in Richmond expressed regret that Virginia was involved in slavery, how could you possibly care?

[Vagos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Virginia doesn't take any actions, in 1850 or in present day. The people in Virginia take actions. We aren't arguing that their actions have no effect on future generations (a strawman you attributed to our camp), we're just saying the people that live in Viriginia today are not responsible. To claim they are is beyond ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

If all that happened is that a hundred old guys in Richmond expressed regret that Virginia was involved in slavery, how could you possibly care?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't care, I never said I did. I was merely stating my point of view that people in Virginia today are not responsible and also refuting the strawman they attributed to pvn, poofler and like minded individuals(such as myself).

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
When a corporation spills a bunch of chemicals 60 years ago, the corporation is responsible for cleaning up the mess today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good analogy. And even without it, if a gross injustice remains unaddressed, there is something wrong.

I believe the other greatest injustice in US history was our actions toward the American Indian. Both that and slavery need to be much better addressed, as difficult as it is to find appropriate solutions. In fact, it seems near impossible to come up with a way to redress what we did to the American Indian. (Casinos certainly don't do it.)

[Angeleyes]

What? More needs to be done for the Indians? Go ahead give em more of your money or whatever if you want but keep your hands off mine!

[Jamougha]

[ QUOTE ]
why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Politeness.