|
|
#51
09-09-2006, 04:45 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: The war on faith.
(pure guess)
Yes, I do. I'm not "traditionally" religious, but I'm definitely religious to a significant extent, and I definitely care about the continued existence of earth. A religious person may rationalize that it doesn't matter what happens on earth because ultimately, he/she will be in heaven. But, an atheist can rationalize not caring about what happens because, ultimately, the sun will burn out and the universe will die a slow heat death. Thus, he/she may as well maximize pleasure at the expense of a healthy Earth since no matter what occurs in the interim, the ultimate destination is non-existence (for both the person and the universe in its current form). So yeah, I really have no idea. But I can see equally valid arguments going both ways as to why a religious person vs. a non-religious person "don't care" about the continued existence of earth and life. If they aren't exactly equal in "caring", I would guess that they are extremely close -- I've never met a religious person that legitimately doesn't care about the current situation on Earth because he thinks he's going to heaven. 
|
|
#52
09-09-2006, 04:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The war on faith.
[ QUOTE ]
After the Nietzsche phase, this seems to be the next stop: [/ QUOTE ] Ok, you've lost me. My question was for THE atheist tenets you referred to, so that when you tell me somebody is an atheist I know he follows- a)... b)..., etc. I wasn't raised in an atheist school so I can't use the argument from authority, but of the atheists I know I'd have trouble compiling a list of tenets they follow ( even unknowingly). So, if you pass on THE tenet list you mentioned, I'll test them on it and see how many are REAL atheists and which ones just don't believe in gods and are passing themselves off as atheists on that slender thread. thanks, luckyme
|
|
#53
09-09-2006, 04:59 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The war on faith.
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't raised in an atheist school so I can't use the argument from authority [/ QUOTE ] I assume this is a dig at formal education, as opposed to thinking what you want to think and never considering an alternative. If you didn't catch it before, my education was based on religious texts and teaching us to think about the underlying meaning behind the passages. I don't recall ever appealing to the authority of one of my teachers. I simply stated that because, in my nearly 15 years of education, I never saw a Bible passage advocating an *unjust* war or Jesus claiming we should go out and kill in the name of Christianity, I choose to continue to believe that Christianity is not "pro-war". If disagreeing with an atheist/agnostic with no religious education about a religious topic is "appealing to authority" now, then I guess I will continue to appeal to authority....
|
|
#54
09-09-2006, 05:56 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The war on faith.
[ QUOTE ]
(pure guess) Yes, I do. I'm not "traditionally" religious, but I'm definitely religious to a significant extent, and I definitely care about the continued existence of earth. A religious person may rationalize that it doesn't matter what happens on earth because ultimately, he/she will be in heaven. But, an atheist can rationalize not caring about what happens because, ultimately, the sun will burn out and the universe will die a slow heat death. Thus, he/she may as well maximize pleasure at the expense of a healthy Earth since no matter what occurs in the interim, the ultimate destination is non-existence (for both the person and the universe in its current form). So yeah, I really have no idea. But I can see equally valid arguments going both ways as to why a religious person vs. a non-religious person "don't care" about the continued existence of earth and life. If they aren't exactly equal in "caring", I would guess that they are extremely close -- I've never met a religious person that legitimately doesn't care about the current situation on Earth because he thinks he's going to heaven. [/ QUOTE ]You appear to be spiritual and not typically religious. I'm not sure that the more spiritual religions pose a threat. Of course they normally get wiped out by the damning ones. Relligious people that you have met should, if they follow thier religion, leave the current situation in God's Hands.
|
|
#55
09-09-2006, 06:48 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The war on faith.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Saying that religious faith, in general, is the cause for war and fighting is like saying video games are the cause for violent behavior in teenagers. [/ QUOTE ] WTF? This is completely wrong. I have never heard any of those violent teenagers (Columbine, etc.) say that they killed people because a video game told them too, or because they were inspired by a video game. It's the parents and amateur psychologists who say that. On the other hand, terrorists routinely slaughter people and readily admit that their religous faith was the cause for their violence. Therefore, saying that religous faith is the cause of war and fighting is nothing at all like saying video games are the cause of deviant teenage behavior. [/ QUOTE ] In the twentieth century, two God-less ideologies led to great suffering and death on a hitherto unseen scale: one was Nazism and the other Soviet Communism. By the way, teenagers who kill regularly cite pop songs and video games, one example, were teenagers in Spain who killed a hobo as part of a "game" they were re=enacting.
|
|
#56
09-09-2006, 06:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The war on faith.
[ QUOTE ]
In the twentieth century, two God-less ideologies led to great suffering and death on a hitherto unseen scale: one was Nazism and the other Soviet Communism. [/ QUOTE ] The only difference I can see is that its hard to see how H or S could persuade people that the destruction of the earth could be in the 'cause' wheras religon could claim its god's will and rewards await in the after-life. chez
|
|
#57
09-10-2006, 02:46 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The war on faith.
[ QUOTE ]
And I guess your definition of "just" is like txag's? Tell me whether you think the slaughter of the Midianites (ordered by God himself) was just. If you think the killing of an entire nation, with the exception of the little girls who were taken into slavery is just, then we have very different definitions of justice. [/ QUOTE ] Were they killed for who they were or for what they did?
|
|
#59
09-10-2006, 03:20 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The war on faith.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Were they killed for who they were or for what they did? [/ QUOTE ] Because they held a different opinion! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] They violated this one: "Thou shall have no other Gods before me." and then took it a step further by persuading some of the Israelites to join them. Does that make their deaths just or unjust?
|
|
#60
09-10-2006, 03:37 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The war on faith.
[ QUOTE ]
They violated this one: "Thou shall have no other Gods before me." and then took it a step further by persuading some of the Israelites to join them. Does that make their deaths just or unjust? [/ QUOTE ] Unjust, of course, since they were ordered to kill all males including newborns who could not have possibly done anything of the sort.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
