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#51
08-01-2006, 05:24 PM
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Re: $1/$2 Hand from MGM - Play Each Street
[ QUOTE ]
whatever he has here, you certainly could have gotten a bet out of him on the turn ...... Perhaps you could explain the reasoning behind the turn check? would he simply not draw to the bare ace on a paired board? [/ QUOTE ] Would a solid TAG call a real turn beat with a naked Ace? His river bet screamed naked ace and he actually thought that his 88 would be good. WRONG! SHIP IT HOLLA! Here are my thoughts as I played: Pre-flop -- No reason to give him any additional information. By calling I am 90% sure we will be heads up. My plan was to bet/raise any non A or K flop. Flop - Well, he didn't look happy so I knew it was a WA/WA situation. Calling helps me sell a flush draw or a weak Q or lower PP. Turn - Now only one hand beats me and if he doesn't have a spade I am not getting another dime. I checked very quickly. River - I was betting pot all the way, but he beat me to it. I also thought I was going to see a naked A or a slow-played flush. Results oriented thinking ---- Obviously I played the hand optimally and got very lucky based upon his holding. I knew he would not stack off with an over pair or a small flush. I was willing to take a few chances to play for stacks. Against a bad player, I am definitely getting another bet in somewhere. FYI - The table idiot immediately shouts "Bad Beat" when villain flipped his cards [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I'll post the hand I stacked him with in Saturday TR. That one was ABC TAG poker as everyone except the donkey knew what I had [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] 
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#53
08-01-2006, 05:33 PM
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Re: $1/$2 Hand from MGM - Play Each Street
Preflop, I'm smooth-calling to see if an ace falls.
On this flop, I'm calling, not raising. On the turn, I'm leading for $50: I can't let a flush draw off easily, and if the river blanks I lose out on $50 that the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] would have given me on the turn. On the river, your play was obvious. Villain had A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?
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#54
08-01-2006, 05:35 PM
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Re: $1/$2 Hand from MGM - Play Each Street
[ QUOTE ]
On the river, your play was obvious. Villain had A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]? [/ QUOTE ] 88
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#55
08-01-2006, 05:36 PM
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Re: $1/$2 Hand from MGM - Play Each Street
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] whatever he has here, you certainly could have gotten a bet out of him on the turn ...... Perhaps you could explain the reasoning behind the turn check? would he simply not draw to the bare ace on a paired board? [/ QUOTE ] Would a solid TAG call a real turn beat with a naked Ace? His river bet screamed naked ace and he actually thought that his 88 would be good. WRONG! SHIP IT HOLLA! [/ QUOTE ] CHEATER!!!! I put that it was results oriented thinking at the end of the elipses there......anyway. The reconciliation with the way you played it was the flop smooth call in conjunction with the turn check after giving the read that villain knows how you play, i.e. seeing flops and playing well on the turn and the river. The central point in my argument was that your flop call was deceptive enough for the vast majority of situations. If you were floating in this spot, would you have bet? Would you have bet if the six was not a spade? I don't think the guy was a donkey anyway, since the way you played it was so odd that there is almost no way he can put you on the one boat that beats him, even if he took a minute to think about it.
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#56
08-01-2006, 05:39 PM
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Re: $1/$2 Hand from MGM - Play Each Street
[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, I'm leading for $50: I can't let a flush draw off easily [/ QUOTE ] Why, exactly, can you not let a flush draw off easily on the turn? I don't get this. Checking the turn is the only way to win another dime, with the exception of a few hands where all the money would go in no matter what 4_2_it did.
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#57
08-01-2006, 05:42 PM
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Re: $1/$2 Hand from MGM - Play Each Street
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the guy was a donkey anyway, since the way you played it was so odd that there is almost no way he can put you on the one boat that beats him, even if he took a minute to think about it. [/ QUOTE ] The villain was not a donkey at all (sorry if I gave that impression). In fact, he may have been the best player at the table. He shook my hand and gave me a nod as he left the table. He really got cold decked, but that was the only way I was going to get his stack. The donkey was another guy who I stacked earlier who shouted "Bad Beat".
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#58
08-01-2006, 05:45 PM
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Re: $1/$2 Hand from MGM - Play Each Street
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] On the turn, I'm leading for $50: I can't let a flush draw off easily [/ QUOTE ] Why, exactly, can you not let a flush draw off easily on the turn? I don't get this. [/ QUOTE ] I'm charging him to draw to a worse hand. If he hits, I'm stacking him either way, but if he *misses*, this bet is the only extra money I'm getting out of him. He's certainly not paying off a river bet with a missed flush draw, but he WILL pay off a turn bet with a nut flush draw. So, I'm "charging him to draw," even though he's drawing to a second-best hand, because 3/4ths of the time he'll miss the river and I'll get no extra cash out of the hand.
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#59
08-01-2006, 05:49 PM
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Re: $1/$2 Hand from MGM - Play Each Street
[ QUOTE ]
you're asking how much to bet on that flop? you have 8,000+ posts? [/ QUOTE ] you're just bitter cuz you got railed on for having 2k posts and not knowing how to play 44 on an A4x board.
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#60
08-01-2006, 05:49 PM
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Re: $1/$2 Hand from MGM - Play Each Street
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] On the turn, I'm leading for $50: I can't let a flush draw off easily [/ QUOTE ] Why, exactly, can you not let a flush draw off easily on the turn? I don't get this. Checking the turn is the only way to win another dime, with the exception of a few hands where all the money would go in no matter what 4_2_it did. [/ QUOTE ] for all of the people thinking a solid player isn't going to call a meaningful turn bet with the lone ace of spades, how big of a river bet do you think he'll call? after checking the turn, what is your plan for bet sizing each of these rivers (assuming villain doesn't lead out, which i don't think good players will most of the time) 1. 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2. 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3. J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (or any spade) I'm trying to get my head around how we're getting more value out of letting villain draw than simply betting a little something more on the turn. Edited to say: Maybe the better question is what will a solid villain put us on when we check the turn?
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