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#51
07-24-2006, 03:44 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] energy/Pharma/defense and telecom..the businesses I work with [/ QUOTE ] Ah...that explains this post "there is no consensus that it is attributable to humans. " http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1 and this post http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1 Now your factually incorrect rants make sense. BTW, I work in Pharma, I have a very good understanding of how it works. [/ QUOTE ] Then you know that your "lifetime of the CEO" comment, which you use in part to justify energy companies not being interested in raising the cost of entry to their competitors in alternative energy, is horsemanure. Unless you work in pharma as a janitor that is. 
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#52
07-24-2006, 03:49 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
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There are many industries that did not get under way until a great amount of capital was first invested by profit-seekers. [/ QUOTE ] Riddick, ITER will cost around 8 billion to make. It will take 20 years to develop. Then they can start building plants to produce energy. Show me a project similar to ITER that has been accomplished in history using private funds. Remember they are getting ZERO ROI for at least 20 years. They are also doing something highly theoretical. Both conditions (long development [15+ years] and multibillion cost) have to apply to your example. http://www.iter.org/ It's your turn to school me now.
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#53
07-24-2006, 03:56 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
[ QUOTE ]
Then you know that your "lifetime of the CEO" comment, which you use in part to justify energy companies not being interested in raising the cost of entry to their competitors in alternative energy, is horsemanure. Unless you work in pharma as a janitor that is. [/ QUOTE ] No I don't think it is. I think a lot of the CEO's will be dead before this topic starts to effectively enter the courts through litigation. I think we will see a repeat of what happened to Phillip Morris. They pay billions in lawsuits now. Philip Morris loses $28B suit http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/04/news.../philipmorris/ At the same time they still pump out bogus research that downplays cancer risks. The energy industry is behaving in the exact same manner using the exact same tactics.
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#54
07-24-2006, 04:29 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
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No I don't think it is. I think a lot of the CEO's will be dead before this topic starts to effectively enter the courts through litigation [/ QUOTE ] Of course they will be. That doesnt mean that companies dont invest in projects with time horizons far longer.
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#55
07-24-2006, 04:57 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
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Of course they will be. That doesnt mean that companies dont invest in projects with time horizons far longer. [/ QUOTE ] I see what the miscommunication is. You think I'm talking about companies in general. I'm talking about a very specific industry. You are also confusing the good of the populace with the good of a single company. Maybe if I link to this post a 3rd time in this thread alone: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1 and this post http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1 maybe you will get the picture. But I'm guessing not. BTW, you are wrong about the long term. Just look at the tobacco industry and polonium. Surely nuclear waste in tobacco isn't good for the companies long term profits is it? Anything to save a dime on fertilizer! Open your eyes, there are exceptions to every rule.
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#56
07-24-2006, 05:32 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Of course they will be. That doesnt mean that companies dont invest in projects with time horizons far longer. [/ QUOTE ] I see what the miscommunication is. You think I'm talking about companies in general. I'm talking about a very specific industry. You are also confusing the good of the populace with the good of a single company. Maybe if I link to this post a 3rd time in this thread alone: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1 and this post http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1 maybe you will get the picture. But I'm guessing not. BTW, you are wrong about the long term. Just look at the tobacco industry and polonium. Surely nuclear waste in tobacco isn't good for the companies long term profits is it? Anything to save a dime on fertilizer! Open your eyes, there are exceptions to every rule. [/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> an industry that is both perverse in its business plan and who's R&D is marketing focused not technology focused. I am 100% right regarding the time horizon of R&D in the industries I named, including energy, and Ive got about 20,000 pages of financial spreadsheets to prove it. Your links dont say any more than they did the first two times you put posted them. </font>
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#57
07-24-2006, 05:42 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
[ QUOTE ]
Riddick, ITER will cost around 8 billion to make. It will take 20 years to develop. Then they can start building plants to produce energy. Show me a project similar to ITER that has been accomplished in history using private funds. [/ QUOTE ] Are you serious? Dude, google "investment billion". You will see that private company investments in the billions-of-dollars range are being routinely made year in and year out in many industries. I mean, christ, pharmaceutical companies invest upwards of $40 billion before a dime is returned on it, which may not be for a decade or more on some drugs. Heck, even the Borgata cost $1 billion just to erect, and that's a casino! How many years did the process of building the billion-dollar-Borgata take before a dime on investment was returned? The fact that ITER is costing an exorbitant $8 billion and taking 20 years to construct merely reflects an absence of any risk, any competitive pressure, any liability, or any real consequences of failure. I also suspect a total lack of any remorse in that violent theft of $8 billion.
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#58
07-24-2006, 06:29 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Riddick, ITER will cost around 8 billion to make. It will take 20 years to develop. Then they can start building plants to produce energy. Show me a project similar to ITER that has been accomplished in history using private funds. [/ QUOTE ] Are you serious? Dude, google "investment billion". You will see that private company investments in the billions-of-dollars range are being routinely made year in and year out in many industries. I mean, christ, pharmaceutical companies invest upwards of $40 billion before a dime is returned on it, which may not be for a decade or more on some drugs. Heck, even the Borgata cost $1 billion just to erect, and that's a casino! How many years did the process of building the billion-dollar-Borgata take before a dime on investment was returned? The fact that ITER is costing an exorbitant $8 billion and taking 20 years to construct merely reflects an absence of any risk, any competitive pressure, any liability, or any real consequences of failure. I also suspect a total lack of any remorse in that violent theft of $8 billion. [/ QUOTE ] And $8 billion is about 2.5% of one year of Exxons revenues. If Wacki doesnt think that a company will make that kind of investment to corner the market in a competitive technology he's.....Wacki! Its even worse than saying an oil/gas/coal company wont spend money exploring to find new oil/gas/coal because it increases supply and more supply means lower prices, so its self-defeating. One of our former DoE geniuses came up with that one.
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#59
07-24-2006, 07:24 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
[ QUOTE ]
And $8 billion is about 2.5% of one year of Exxons revenues. If Wacki doesnt think that a company will make that kind of investment to corner the market in a competitive technology he's.....Wacki! [/ QUOTE ] Are you dense? http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...est-usat_x.htm Also maybe you should look who is funding ITER. It's been on hold for 25 years just to let you know. So private enterprise has had a ton of time to jump on the gun.
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#60
07-24-2006, 07:28 PM
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Re: Has the US gone communist yet? It\'s hard to tell.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] And $8 billion is about 2.5% of one year of Exxons revenues. If Wacki doesnt think that a company will make that kind of investment to corner the market in a competitive technology he's.....Wacki! [/ QUOTE ] Are you dense? http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...est-usat_x.htm Also maybe you should look who is funding ITER. It's been on hold for 25 years just to let you know. So private enterprise has had a ton of time to jump on the gun. [/ QUOTE ] I guess I need to spell out every word for you. And $8 billion is about 2.5% of one year of Exxons revenues. If Wacki doesnt think that a company will make that kind of investment to corner the market in a viable and potentially profitable competitive technology he's.....Wacki That should have been clear, since if there is a "market to corner" its implied that its viable and profitable. Sorry, I won't make assumptions about your ability to think beyond the written word any longer.
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