We Interrupt This Call . . .

[smarterthanyoda]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, has anyone ever heard a story about someone getting a call or text message on a cell phone from his accomplice who saw his opponents hole cards during a hand while walking by?

This kind of paranoia makes me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have only heard this argument presented by people that aware aware of a no cell phone rule and assume this must be the reason why. The reason for prohibiting cell phones is the person on them slows down/disrupts the game. With this reasoning there is nothing wrong with answering the phone and asking the caller to hold on until you can step away from the table.


[/ QUOTE ]
The dealers at Barona have told me that they caught a ring of cheaters that used cell phones, and that's why they are fairly strict about cell phone use. Still, they aren't as harsh as some of the rooms mentioned earlier in this thread.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, has anyone ever heard a story about someone getting a call or text message on a cell phone from his accomplice who saw his opponents hole cards during a hand while walking by?

This kind of paranoia makes me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have only heard this argument presented by people that aware aware of a no cell phone rule and assume this must be the reason why. The reason for prohibiting cell phones is the person on them slows down/disrupts the game. With this reasoning there is nothing wrong with answering the phone and asking the caller to hold on until you can step away from the table.


[/ QUOTE ]
The dealers at Barona have told me that they caught a ring of cheaters that used cell phones, and that's why they are fairly strict about cell phone use. Still, they aren't as harsh as some of the rooms mentioned earlier in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have heard a lot of things from dealers that jst arent' true. It is possible to do something to a pit game (I know almost nothing about protecting the integrity of a pit game). If someone were to cheat at poker they woudl first have to find a player that did not protect his hand from people behind him, next they would have to position themselves wehre they could see his hand, and then they would have to decide that using the phone was easier than hand signals.

The other thing is they told you, so they aren't keeping it a secret, but somehow nobody here has the details of what happened. If a "ring" of cheats was caught that would be a pretty big deal.

[smarterthanyoda]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, has anyone ever heard a story about someone getting a call or text message on a cell phone from his accomplice who saw his opponents hole cards during a hand while walking by?

This kind of paranoia makes me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have only heard this argument presented by people that aware aware of a no cell phone rule and assume this must be the reason why. The reason for prohibiting cell phones is the person on them slows down/disrupts the game. With this reasoning there is nothing wrong with answering the phone and asking the caller to hold on until you can step away from the table.


[/ QUOTE ]
The dealers at Barona have told me that they caught a ring of cheaters that used cell phones, and that's why they are fairly strict about cell phone use. Still, they aren't as harsh as some of the rooms mentioned earlier in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have heard a lot of things from dealers that jst arent' true. It is possible to do something to a pit game (I know almost nothing about protecting the integrity of a pit game). If someone were to cheat at poker they woudl first have to find a player that did not protect his hand from people behind him, next they would have to position themselves wehre they could see his hand, and then they would have to decide that using the phone was easier than hand signals.

The other thing is they told you, so they aren't keeping it a secret, but somehow nobody here has the details of what happened. If a "ring" of cheats was caught that would be a pretty big deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, if it had happened the people here would probably have known.

Just to clarify, I might have been a liberal with the word "ring". I just meant it was more than one person. And my assumption (can't remember if it's what they said) was that people were doing something similar to IM'ing with someone else at your table online, like texting each other what they folded.

[mblax10]

[ QUOTE ]
Commerce 40-80. All hell breaks loose. Pre-flop it's capped with 6-way action. Guy on the button obviously has pocket aces. Just before the flop his 16-year old daughter calls him with an important problem.

Flop comes 6-5-3. It's bet, called, and raised in front of him. He pauses a moment, and says into the phone:

"Daddy call you back."

[/ QUOTE ]

What was ruled did daddy have to call, or was he allowed to raise?

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you people (except Randy) not make a distinction between Answering a phone, and Talking on a phone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because both require talking on the phone.

I just don't understand why people feel such an entitlement to use their [censored] cell phones whenever, whenever.

People survived for thousands of years without cell phones. You can survive for a few hours.

[jfk]

[ QUOTE ]
Randy,

I respect your experience and opinions but have a few questions.

1. If not for having a cellphone would the above mentioned baby not have been born?
2. Were babies not born before cellphones were invented?
3. If not for having a cellphone might the relative not been in an accident?
4. Did having a cellphone at the poker table enable the person in the accident to survive via some microwave magic?
5. If not for having a cellphone would the business robbery been prevented?
6. Did having a cellphone somehow help catch the burglar?
7. Did having the cellphone allow the poker player to douse the flames consuming his burning home?

I see nothing that couldn't have waited 30 seconds in your post above. If you are being notified of an event that has already occurred can you go back in time and change it because you discovered it 30 seconds sooner?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly right.

For the group arguing that they need to take that massively important call or the world will seize, no one says you can't. Just understand that you forfeit the hand.

If the news you're receiving is so earth shaking, clearly you shouldn't mind walking away from that pocket pair.

The vast majority of the calls taken at the table can wait. If you happen to have that rare exception then poker should be the last thing on your mind at the moment.

For those of you tethered to a cell phone 24 hours a day, these are the costs. Please let the rest of us continue with the game and you'll be free to tend to your emergency.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
If the news you're receiving is so earth shaking, clearly you shouldn't mind walking away from that pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you applly this a a phone call and not a waitress taking a drink order, or the food server taking an order, or your wife that wants money for a machine. Why single out one item that isn't really a disturbance anyway.

[jfk]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you applly this a a phone call and not a waitress taking a drink order, or the food server taking an order, or your wife that wants money for a machine. Why single out one item that isn't really a disturbance anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very fair question.

Most or at least many players wait for convenient times in which to order, receive or pay for food. If food and/or server arrive at a time which is not convenient, in general both the player and the server allocate a priority to the play of a hand. The server can leave and come back, or leave the food and collect later or whatever is appropriate.

I'm sure everyone can think of several contrary examples but it seems reasonable to say that this is generally true.

Phone calls come at arbitrary times which often aren't convenient. As cell phone use becomes almost universal many people now give less pause to inconveniencing others in their use. We've all involuntarily overheard many conversations at the table. I can think of none which have qualified as true emergencies. Most would proably be fairly characterized as frivilous.

As players see others use their phones at the table with increasing frequency it increases the likelihood of general use and lowers the bar for what players consider to be worthwhile calls to answer. When anyone answers or makes a call at the table it has an erosive effect on the no cell phone rule. As players are less inhibited about cell phone use (and wasting playing time) more players feel they have license to get on the phone.

As I see it, answering a cell phone is nearly always a selfish act which slows down the game. There are many other distractions (which Randy pointed out) at the game which slow play but it seems that governing cell phone use is both an easy and fair way to promote faster play.

It is not reasonable or fair to expect a floor or dealer to determine the importance of a call and whether or not a player may answer. As such, it seems easiest and fairest to ask players not to answer/speak on the phone while at the table.

Many players would never or rarely consider using a phone at the table. Many players think there's nothing wrong with it. The debate about cell phone use is polemical and this can manifest itself into disharmony at the table. Since feelings are so strong and abuse (in my view) is so common, the most manageable solution is to forbid their use while seated.

This is easier for the dealers, easier for the floor and at the end of the day easier for the players. They will understand, resepct and abide by such an easily understood rule if it is fairly and universally enforced.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
This is easier for the dealers, easier for the floor and at the end of the day easier for the players. They will understand, resepct and abide by such an easily understood rule if it is fairly and universally enforced.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is the thing. A rule that your hand is dead for answering your phone is on the face unfair. There are a lot things that you aren't allowed to do that you don't lose your hand for. There are rules related to game play that you can violate but your hand is not dead in the interest of fairness, how can it ever be fair to declare a hand dead because of a phone call. From a management prospective I am not going to abn something that allows people to play that otherwise wouldn't be able to play.

As far as waitresses not interrupting the action it really depends. I have worked places where they are suppsoed to wait until a plyer is out of a hand; I have also worked in a place wehre they will interupt whoever they want and was told that part of their colelctive argaining agreement was that only a beverage supervisor could tell them what to do (anather supervisor was suspended for asking the waitress to come to the poker room).

[jfk]

Randy,

We'll have to disagree on fairness and reason. I believe any reasonable rule that is fairly and evenly applied can be work in a cardroom. I'll have to speculate on what other things you meant that you're not allowed to do in a cardroom, but any habit can be changed if a rule is made which is both farily applied and enforced.

Most phone rules don't work well in cardrooms because they aren't evenly applied. While you may not consider it fair to kill a players hand for answering a call, I believe it is less fair to allow some players the liberty of continued or discrete of a phone while playing though insisting that others hang up. When a room doesn't take a firm stance, whatever rule they have is usually loosely and irregularly applied.

I don't neccesarily agree with your contention that banning cell use at the table would disable many player's patronage. You aren't telling them that they can't have a phone in the room, only that it can't be used while at the table. That puts the onus of determining importance on the phone owner, not the other players and staff.

It is both reasonable and admirable for you to try to accomodate what you see as the needs and wishes of your customers. More rooms should do this.

However, many players want the cards in the air and they are aware of playing choices. They can go to your club, another club or sit in front of the keyboard. In my view, play gets slightly slower all the time. Cell phones are among the leading causes.

As play gets slower, the cardroom becomes less attractive to a good segment of players. While I'd not criticize a room for maintaining a comfortable environment for regulars I believe that it can't come at the expense of the primary reason why a card room has appeal; to play cards.

When a room is cavalier about letting a player hold up play while on a call, I figure that they're not being accomodating to the needs of those who happen to not want to talk on the phone.

Cell phone use is a special case. It still can create hard feelings. It is better to eliminate the problem than to try to apply fine judgements which normally lead to abuse or an unwieldy and often unfair application of penalties.