GOSH-DARN MINRAISERS

[slartibartfast]

I don't see why I should have to explain the information I set forth clearly in my previous post to someone who has been using the forum long enough to make 5732 posts, but if it's possible to explain anything to you Jim I'll try my best.

The poll may not be valuable in the field of strict scientific research, (I know since this was my field pre-poker) however it holds more weight than just one individual's opinion, can you understand why?

So you have position on someone who raised you on the flop. Does a non-bet on the turn now represent strength or weakness? Answers on a postcard please.

If his calling your flop reraise 'for sure doesn't mean a weaker king' you have a clear course of action, one that merely calling doesn't give. However, if he doesn't call with a weaker king then why would he call an all-in with K9 as you suggest?

As far as the 'inept' comment I was referring to someone who can only fire one barrel of a bluff, not the poster who I was quoting.

[wyoak]

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If his calling your flop reraise 'for sure doesn't mean a weaker king' you have a clear course of action, one that merely calling doesn't give. However, if he doesn't call with a weaker king then why would he call an all-in with K9 as you suggest?


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You call, he fires again on turn, you push, he calls since pot is bigger/his stack is smaller.

What amount are you raising that gives you any folding equity but allows you to get away from the hand?

edit: also, for some purely anecdotal evidence, in my (admittedly limited) experience flop minraises are less often the nuts than turn or river minraises.

[slartibartfast]

Btw Dan,

I never ever min-raise on the flop except with trips or better - I want people to call with two pair or worse. Thanks for paying me off 100% of the time dude ;-)

[mason55]

ok. here's the thing. because of stack sizes you're going broke if you're beat. so you want to take the course of action that allows worse hands to pay you off. the way to do this is call flop and turn.

that's about as simple as it gets.

[Big_Jim]

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I don't see why I should have to explain the information I set forth clearly in my previous post to someone who has been using the forum long enough to make 5732 posts, but if it's possible to explain anything to you Jim I'll try my best.

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I don't see why I should have to explain incredibly basic fundamentals to you, but I've tried my best, and apparently failed.

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The poll may not be valuable in the field of strict scientific research, (I know since this was my field pre-poker) however it holds more weight than just one individual's opinion, can you understand why?

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Why do you feel the need to talk down to me like I'm an idiot? Your poll DIDN'T EVEN INCLUDE the option that I feel is by far most likely. Not also that NOBODY except for you is advocating a flop fold. Do you really think that you are this far ahead of the curve?

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So you have position on someone who raised you on the flop. Does a non-bet on the turn now represent strength or weakness? Answers on a postcard please.

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I have not played against this opponent, so I don't know, but I'll figure it out quicker than you will, with your strategy.

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If his calling your flop reraise 'for sure doesn't mean a weaker king' you have a clear course of action, one that merely calling doesn't give.

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A clear course of action may make things simpler, but it's not necessarily (and typically is NOT) the play that makes the most money.

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However, if he doesn't call with a weaker king then why would he call an all-in with K9 as you suggest?

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My suggestion was for on the turn, when he is far more pot committed.

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As far as the 'inept' comment I was referring to someone who can only fire one barrel of a bluff, not the poster who I was quoting.

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Fair enough, but this is CLEARLY an argument for calling on the flop.

[yvesaint]

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However, if he doesn't call with a weaker king then why would he call an all-in with K9 as you suggest?


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dude

situation 1:

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($46, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $40</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $80</font>, Hero raises to $240 (basically a push)

situation 2:

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($46, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $40</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $80</font>, Hero calls $40.


Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($206, 2 players)

UTG bets $100, Hero pushes for $100 more

which one do u think K9 sticks his stack in??

[Big_Jim]

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ok. here's the thing. because of stack sizes you're going broke if you're beat. so you want to take the course of action that allows worse hands to pay you off. the way to do this is call flop and turn.

that's about as simple as it gets.

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word

[yvesaint]

and before you say "WHAT IF HE CHECKS TURN?? LOL GOT U" he almost never checks turn with a better hand after he c/mini-raises the flop.

[slartibartfast]

&gt;&gt;&gt; You call, he fires again on turn, you push, he calls since pot is bigger/his stack is smaller.

What amount are you raising that gives you any folding equity but allows you to get away from the hand? &lt;&lt;&lt;


So he raises your bet on the flop, indicating a better hand than you. Next he bets on the turn, still indicating a good hand, one which he considered better than top pair (we assume) on the flop. Then you push? Why is he ever going to fold here, or call and show a worse hand?!

[yvesaint]

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Btw Dan,

I never ever min-raise on the flop except with trips or better - I want people to call with two pair or worse. Thanks for paying me off 100% of the time dude ;-)

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Btw,

good thing we're not playing a table full of slartibartfasts, or we'd be polled until we're busto!! this was his field of study, guys!!