Ftp stole my money

[BurnleyMik]

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Okay, I believe I've got this sorted out. Here's the timeline as I understand it:

On 9/1 Eric created an account and made a deposit. Over the next 5 days he was the recipient of chip dumping from 7 different accounts, all later confirmed to be involved in credit card fraud. While this chip dumping was going on, he was also playing in legitimate games (and losing the combined fraudulant money). By 9/6 he was broke on this account and was at his current deposit limit, so he created the account he posted about ("rapperson").

Rapperson played for a total of 14 sessions over the span of 4 hours (from about 12:30AM ET until 4:30AM ET on 9/7), against a total of less than 20 players. So for those of you wondering why nobody seems to have any hand histories against this player, this is why. It looks like rapperson was only chip dumped to from one other player who later turned out to be a credit card fraudster. With this ~$8K in cash he went on to play 25/50 NL, 100/200 NL and 25/50 PLO, this time ending up with the slightly under $14K we're talking about.

He then tried to cash out, triggering the investigation.

So that's why his account is locked, his funds seized, and he's most certainly no longer welcome at FTP.

To answer the other issues this case has brought to light:

1. Why did it take from Sept 7th until Nov 2nd (it wasn't 2.5 months as previously thrown around, it was under 2 months) to complete this investigation?
-Credit card fraud and chip dumping can take a long time to verify. We take locking accounts and seizing funds very seriously, and we don't want to come to any snap decisions. That being said, 2 months is still way too long, and our customer support needs better information along the way of an investigation to respond in a timely manner to questions the investigated player may have. We're definitely striving to improve in this area, and with the recent explosion of players we've experienced, growing pains like this are an unfortunate inevitability.

2. Why don't you tell the player when the investigation is complete exactly what they did wrong?
-In 95%+ of the cases, when a player involved in fraud gets caught, they don't need or want an explanation. They understand they've been caught and go back under the rock they came from. What we can do better is that when a player argues vehemently that they're innocent, we should be providing them more details about the case. We will definitely be looking at revising the current policy regarding this.

That being said, it's my belief that Eric here knows what he did, has been lying throughout this thread (sprinkling the truth here and there), and his only motivation is to bad mouth the site that caught him.

I'll try to answer any questions this post might trigger, but understand that since this isn't my area of expertise in the slightest, answers may take a while as I track down someone who can explain this stuff to me.

Doug

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Here's your response.
Print it.
Take the paper and fold into sharp corners.
Insert into orifice.

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The above may well all be true, but what hard evidence is there??? This is simply FTPDoug's understanding of the situation. I have to agree that I don't think he has investigated it personally. I think this is just the info. he has been given. So now I tell you that the water is pink...does that mean its true???? I think not. Also Doug mentions at the end that he will come back to answer question.............hmmmmm

[BurnleyMik]

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FTPDoug's failure to address some very legitimate concerns is beginning to look like a cover-up. Could it be that they had made a mistake (or one employee acted maliciously), and instead of owning up to it, they're now doing what many organizations tend to do in these situations: circle their wagons and cover up. And it's real easy for an online casino to do this, since all they have to do is just ignore you.

The issue isn't even about Eric anymore. It's about Fulltilt's policies. We collectively (and I personally) have a lot of money at Fulltilt and generate many millions in profits for them. We all know that we are at their mercy in that we have no realistic legal recourse should they decide to seize funds. At the very least, they should have policies that ensure that that cannot happen arbitrarily (one pissed-off worker just wanting to screw someone over), and to provide full disclosure to the parties involved about why they're taking a particular course of action, so that he/she could respond and refute.

And I think that those of you on this forum who are cheering in support of Fulltilt are not doing yourselves any favors. Even if you think Eric is a crook, Fulltilt's policies are bad enough that we should all be outraged. Your blind support of Fulltilt is enabling them to continue with their course as usual.

(And I will not provide my FullTilt name because I don't want my money seized in retaliation. Do any of you really feel that my fear is totally unjustified? If they did seize my (or your) funds out of maliciousness of mistake, how can you ever refute it, if their flunky gatekeepers won't even allow you access to even talk to a supervisor, or any other appear/review process.)

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What an excellent post phish. this exactly what I have been trying to get accross. Something needs to be done to protect the players. What else could eric have done in this matter?

[Quanah Parker]

burnleymik is pronounced Er'ic Jon^es.

[BurnleyMik]

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burnleymik is pronounced Er'ic Jon^es.

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lol...I have been reading your other posts and this is just the type of junk u usually come up with... you never seem to have anything constructive to say. Only stupid comments with a sense of poorly timed wit. I don't know eric, but I do believe he has a right to some kind of fair hearing on this matter. My most worrying thought is about the power that full-tilt has invested in itself.

[bengele]

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The above may well all be true, but what hard evidence is there???

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Out of curiosity what evidence do yo want to see?

[dknightx]

HAND HISTORIES ... WHICH ERIC ALREADY REQUESTED BUT THEY REFUSE TO GIVE HIM.

[bengele]

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HAND HISTORIES ... WHICH ERIC ALREADY REQUESTED BUT THEY REFUSE TO GIVE HIM.

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FTPDOoug can't make up hand histories? Eric doesn't remember enough to dispute them. At the end of the day I think we are going to have accept that it is Doug's word against Eric's. While I would love to see some proof I can't think of anything that would be able to convince me 100% one way or the other.

Edit to add:

What if Doug posted hand histories and Eric said that was not the way that it happened?

[PaulWilmot]

Can someone please sum up this 55 pager?

[Wahoo73]

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Can someone please sum up this 55 pager?

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I'm sure someone can, but it won't be me. However, IMO, it is worth the time invested for you to read this entire thread, for both entertainment and educational value.

[suzzer99]

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Can someone please sum up this 55 pager?

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Summary: change your settings to 99 posts/page.