With smart management, how long would it take for Knicks to get good?

[Aloysius]

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Is there any realistic chance that they could get decent (young) value for Marbury and/or Francis?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

sorry---these guys are pretty much untradeables at this point. the fact that the magic went on a massive hot streak after getting rid of francis won't help his cause either.

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Yeah, I liked the Francis trade because it was something for nothing, but to trade either it's going to be for another similar over priced player (Zach Randolph, Theo Ratliffesque)

Maybe Stevie for AI? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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you actually liked the francis trade? you liked the fact that the knicks unloaded expiring contracts for another huge salary hit? I think Isiah might have a job for you.

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Well, Dolan is clearly willing to deficit / pay luxury tax, so taking another salary hit isn't a big deal to this jackass. The real problem is moving these big contracts around, and getting back players that would help the Knicks resemble an actual NBA team. That to me is the danger in taking on Marbury's contract - who will take on his insane salary? With 3 years left?

Even still, if you believe Francis will help this team marginally on the court, and you're willing to eat his contract, Knicks gave up nothing to get Franchise so it's net + IMO.

If Zeke has something in the works and can move Marbury / Francis for a better fit, hey, even better.

-Al

[Wynton]

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Ask twice and ye shall receive.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm


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Thanks a lot, that's a good link. It is real scary to see all those numbers next to each other. I wonder if they really are obligated to pay Houston the $20.7 million he is reportedly due next year.

I don't really understand the salary cap at all. But that chart suggests that in a couple of years their payroll will drop dramatically, unless, of course, they continue their spending binge. Perhaps in 2009/10 they will have money to spend?

I'm color blind so not sure I'm reading this correctly. Is Crawford really signed through 2010-11, when he's due to make $10 million?

[Aytumious]

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Ask twice and ye shall receive.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm


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Thanks a lot, that's a good link. It is real scary to see all those numbers next to each other. I wonder if they really are obligated to pay Houston the $20.7 million he is reportedly due next year.

I don't really understand the salary cap at all. But that chart suggests that in a couple of years their payroll will drop dramatically, unless, of course, they continue their spending binge. Perhaps in 2009/10 they will have money to spend?

I'm color blind so not sure I'm reading this correctly. Is Crawford really signed through 2010-11, when he's due to make $10 million?

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That's correct. Crawful has a player option in 09/10 which he will obviously pick up. Houston's contract does indeed count as well.

The thing about thinking they'll have cap room is that 09/10 is that they will have roughly $35 million in just Curry, James, Richardson, and Crawford. You have to think they'll extend Frye with a large deal since he is one of the few good players on the team. I think it's highly unlikely they have cap room any time soon.

[Aloysius]

Aytumious - correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as they're willin to deficit / pay the luxury tax, cap room flexibility isn't a critical issue. While they won't be able to go after a major FA or something, they'll be able to 1) sign back existing young talent cause of Bird Rights and 2) trade major salaries as they expire, or, if they get lucky, actually trade these palyers with high salaries for something decent in return.

-Al

[KDawg]

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What I was referring to is the talent on the team, which is pretty good. I admit that they probably won't put it all together, but if they did, they would be a near .500 team.

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individually, there are some very talented players, but none of these guys have ever shown that they can really work in a team envriorment. In steve francis and marbury, you have two point guards that have to start each game, and neither guy has been much of a distributor. In rose you also have a selfish player who can't really shoot all that well, same goes for crawford. The team isn't looking so good right now are they. The Dolans are idiots, so to expect any different anytime soon is just having your head in the clouds

[Aytumious]

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Aytumious - correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as they're willin to deficit / pay the luxury tax, cap room flexibility isn't a critical issue. While they won't be able to go after a major FA or something, they'll be able to 1) sign back existing young talent cause of Bird Rights and 2) trade major salaries as they expire, or, if they get lucky, actually trade these palyers with high salaries for something decent in return.

-Al

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That's correct. They also get exemptions like the one used to sign Jerome James this past year. Decent players can usually be found for the mid level exemption though James obviously wasn't one of those.

[Aloysius]

Aytumious - IndieMatty has written on the topic (how people make a big issue of Knicks salary cap situation, although it's not actually an enormous issue). I think people forget that when looking at the Knicks situation.

But the truth is how much longer can Dolan afford to keep this jackassery up? I mean, he's a businessman, right? This team, I don't quite remember the exact numbers but I think ~$50M, but they're definitely deficiting right now.

-Al

[Aytumious]

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Aytumious - IndieMatty has written on the topic (how people make a big issue of Knicks salary cap situation, although it's not actually an enormous issue). I think people forget that when looking at the Knicks situation.

But the truth is how much longer can Dolan afford to keep this jackassery up? I mean, he's a businessman, right? This team, I don't quite remember the exact numbers but I think ~$50M, but they're definitely deficiting right now.

-Al

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The main issue I see is that the Knicks better hope like hell their young players pan out. It's unlikely they'll be able to add a franchise type player in a trade, in FA, or through the draft anytime soon since they traded their lotto pick this year and next. They most likely won't be able to add anything but fringe starters or solid bench guys.

If a team was willing to give anything of value for Francis they would have simply given that to Orlando. Marbury certainly doesn't have any more market value than Francis. None of the other veteran players are really worth all that much. It's pretty bleak in NY in my opinion.

[KDawg]

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The main issue I see is that the Knicks better hope like hell their young players pan out. It's unlikely they'll be able to add a franchise type player in a trade, in FA, or through the draft anytime soon since they traded their lotto pick this year and next. They most likely won't be able to add anything but fringe starters or solid bench guys.

If a team was willing to give anything of value for Francis they would have simply given that to Orlando. Marbury certainly doesn't have any more market value than Francis. None of the other veteran players are really worth all that much. It's pretty bleak in NY in my opinion.

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another thing that the knicks have going against them is this, who really wants to go to NYC now to play their basketball that didn't grow up a knicks fan, I can't think of many. That will kill them in trying to get any decent FAs. Brown, who knows how long he's going to be around with his health issues and the upper management is clueless. Look at how long it took good players to want to come to chicago after the acrimony of the break up, and that upper management is much better run then the knicks and their cap situation for getting top of the line FAs was much better

[Wynton]

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But the truth is how much longer can Dolan afford to keep this jackassery up?

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Apparently quite a while, if you happened to hear yesterday's news conference where everyone thought things were just fine.