Stuck Between Agnosticism and Christianity

[hitch1978]

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The whole argument on both sides is missing a chord, IMHO. The truth of the matter, IMO, is that it is impossible to get to the truth on either side because of an ongoing bias on both sides throughout history.

Scientific evidence, historical evidence, and theological beliefs are all subject to a much greater degree of bias and error than anyone would care to admit. The truth is further obscured in semantics, legalism, and debate.

If you are going to base your beliefs on something besides faith (and that's fine if you decide to do it), you should exhaust every resource until you are able to verify its truth.

Atheism is a every bit a religious belief as is Christianity because it lacks any proof or evidence.

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IMHO this post would have been excellent had you stopped typing 18 words earlier. Honestly.

[Jamougha]

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Atheism is a every bit a religious belief as is Christianity because it lacks any proof or evidence.

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Atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack of belief. You might as well say that a Christian's lack of belief in Thor is just as much a religion as his Christianity. No it's not.

[Splendour]

I can't define God for you right now Nielsio...I suggest you use your own working definition....For me to frame an answer might take an exhaustive text examination and I'm in mostly free thinking mode today...

Jamougha you said:
It's only the incredible arrogance of the religious that allows them to claim to have insight into the mind of god

I think maybe you are perceiving some religious people's confidence in the word of God as arrogance...They don't know his mind...they only know what he allows to be known in his revealed word and then refuse to be shaken...you've just described a kind of confidence thats known as "strong faith" not arrogance...Of course, there are some people that claim to have experienced God thru divine revelation and they might exhibit even stronger faith...

[Nielsio]

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Atheism is a every bit a religious belief as is Christianity because it lacks any proof or evidence.

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Atheism (non theism) does not require proof or evidence because it is the default position.


Also, you're saying {non theism = theism}, which is a bit of a no-no in the science forum.

[Nielsio]

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I can't define God for you right now Nielsio...I suggest you use your own working definition....For me to frame an answer might take an exhaustive text examination and I'm in mostly free thinking mode today...

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My own working definition is 'imaginary being', which the dictionary seemed to agree with. But unless you are willing to define your working definition I don't see how you can continue using the word.

PS "I can't define it" suffices btw.

[Taraz]

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Wikipedia tells us that "hell" is described by all these religions:

2 Religious literature & views
2.1 Bahá'í Faith
2.2 Buddhism
2.3 Chinese religions
2.4 Christianity
2.5 Deism
2.6 Greek Mythology
2.7 Hinduism
2.8 Islam
2.9 Japanese religions
2.10 Judaism
2.11 Maya faith
2.12 Norse Mythology
2.13 Taoism
2.14 Unification Church
2.15 Zoroastrianism

So even if you could force yourself to believe in this Jesus character, you'd still be 14:1 against avoiding hell, on the unlikely (silly!) assumption that these are the only options.

The fact that you are living you life in this psychologically induced terror is a very good example against the claim that "moderate" religion is beneficial - evidently its more like child abuse.

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Just to clarify, many of the religions in the above list don't subscribe to the type of hell that any of us would recognize. If you read the actual wikipedia article you reference, you would see that the Baha'i Faith, some Buddhist schools, Chinese religions, Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism, and the Unification Church don't believe in eternal (or sometimes even transitory) suffering after death.

[kurto]

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I can't define God for you right now Nielsio...I suggest you use your own working definition....

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What you don't seem to comprehend is that people can't discuss God unless its defined. You constantly preach to people about God, but you can't even tell anyone what God is (as you're using it.)

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For me to frame an answer might take an exhaustive text examination and I'm in mostly free thinking mode today...


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So, you're constantly posting about a God that you can't even define without doing an exhaustive study of several texts? If that's the case, I would argue that you don't even know what YOU mean by the word when write it.

No wonder your posts are so puzzling.

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think maybe you are perceiving some religious people's confidence in the word of God as arrogance...

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Which text has the word of God? (we still don't know what God is... perhaps you mean Zeus?) Please provide evidence that it is God's word and not just the superstitious writings of primitive man. Maybe you mean the Koran?

[luckyme]

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Atheism is a every bit a religious belief as is Christianity because it lacks any proof or evidence.

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OK, ok, ya got me .. and I have other religions, can I serve time concurrently ..

a-clausism, a-elvism, a-theism
a-fairyism, a-man-under-the-bedism
a-spirit-of-the-windism, ...

...please don't make me list them all, then they'll all want me to show up for services.
There will never be any proof or evidence FOR atheism, so I'm sunk.
you remain the atheist you were born until sufficient evidence appears that supports the existence of God, then you believe there is one. Finding money under their pillow may do it for some people.

luckyme

[PantsOnFire]

Growing up Catholic, I was taught where where we go after we die (and for some reason, purgatory was neglected to be mentioned as an option). On top of this, I was taught how to behave so you could actually control where you go when you die.

As I developed as a person, my math and science type of mind slowly started seeing a pattern in society and life. People can manipulate your behaviour by presenting consequences as a result of that behaviour. This exact process is the “IF” “THEN ELSE” computer programming method.

That model is good for controlling children and locking up criminals but it is no good for telling me how to live my life. I slowly stepped out of my “religion” (Catholicism) and only after reading about Agnosticism did I realize that’s what I now was, not that it mattered to me.

I find it very odd that so many different religions can believe so many different things and they are each certain they are right. Like I said, I'm a math guy and that doesn't add up.

Mu current position is that I don’t know what’s going to happen to me when I die so by default, I don’t know if there’s anything I can do about it while I’m alive.

[foal]

I want to see an example of an amazing Biblical prophesy.