Authors and Self-Publishing

[Point Point]

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I still put my books in front of the other poker books (including 2+2!) in the poker section whenever I'm in a bookstore.

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What's the title of your book?

[MRBAA]

I'm co-author of two poker books:

The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Texas Hold'em

The Ultimate Guide to Poker Tells


Both are from traditional publishers. One has sold over 30,000 copies, the other over 10,000.

[*TT*]

howtodominate: Without prying (you dont need to share your sales figures) have you received any returns yet? Generally you will start to see returns after the first 4 months, from B&N they commonly shred the books which causes you to eat the cost of goods. Is your over 1k figure after your first adjusted returns?

MBRAA's sales figures are a tiny bit higher than i would have projected, not bad. A friend published an excellent book 2 years ago (I wont say who or the title), one year into the sales process he had only sold 3k copies in the USA but did significantly better in the foreign markets. Then compare that to 2+2's book sales, Harrington and SSHE are practically gold records and 2+2 doesn't spend a dime on marketing & advertising in the traditional sense. The reader will tend to flock to quality product over time.

[MRBAA]

Ahem. To say 2+2 does not spend a dime on marketing or advertising and ignore the fact that 2+2 owns and operates the foremost poker media property in the world is just foolish. This Web site is the best platform in the poker world for promoting poker books. It's a status that's well earned, and if the books weren't good they wouldn't sell like they do. But there are many other very good books out there that would sell many more copies with the benefit of having 2+2 behind them.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Ahem. To say 2+2 does not spend a dime on marketing or advertising and ignore the fact that 2+2 owns and operates the foremost poker media property in the world is just foolish. This Web site is the best platform in the poker world for promoting poker books. It's a status that's well earned, and if the books weren't good they wouldn't sell like they do. But there are many other very good books out there that would sell many more copies with the benefit of having 2+2 behind them.

[/ QUOTE ]

"in the traditional sense."

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
howtodominate: Without prying (you dont need to share your sales figures) have you received any returns yet? Generally you will start to see returns after the first 4 months, from B&N they commonly shred the books which causes you to eat the cost of goods. Is your over 1k figure after your first adjusted returns?


[/ QUOTE ]

Returns can be a major problem for some book titles. So I tell our authors that our sales figures mean very little until at least six months.

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MBRAA's sales figures are a tiny bit higher than i would have projected, not bad.

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I have my doubts about those sales figures too, especially if you look at the current sale ranks on Amazon (which are very poor). Also, and this is somewhat deceiving, these are low priced poker books. So I doubt that the author team, given these particular sale numbers, has made much over $15,000 in royalties (and certainly less than $20,000). Given the poker boom, that's not very good.

Best wishes,
Mason

[MRBAA]

Not sure why you have doubts about these very reasonable sales figures. Unless you feel that Triumph and Alpha, both large and reputable publishing houses, are mis-representing the sales figures (and paying us royalties on higher figures) or think I'm not being truthful. Based on our discussions in the past on publishing issues, I'd say my standards for accuracy in statements about other people's work are higher than yours.

While your estimates on how much we've made are also wrong, it is, however, true that we've made only in the low five figures on each book. We wrote these books mainly for enjoyment and as a sideline to our day jobs.

[Mason Malmuth]

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think I'm not being truthful.

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I think you're being disingenuous. You represent sales of $10 books like they are the equal of $30 books. In our sales figures, we don't include our Fundamentals booklet which sell for $5.95. We don't consider them full books.

Also, you are always on here representing your books as if they are some sort of dynamic sellers. The fact is, based on Amazon rankings, that their current sales are close to zero.

[ QUOTE ]
Based on our discussions in the past on publishing issues, I'd say my standards for accuracy in statements about other people's work are higher than yours.


[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean that the sales of your books are actually slightly above zero?

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While your estimates on how much we've made are also wrong, it is, however, true that we've made only in the low five figures on each book.

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First of all, my estimates are also in the low five figures. I just happen to know what is standard for most other publishers in terms of royalty payments. Perhaps you got a little better deal. But my estimate is consistent with what most other publishers pay which is 7.5 percent of the suggested retail price. By the way, our major competitor only pays 6 percent.

MM

[daveT]

When I started playing poker, I didn't know who 2+2 was. I learned about DS and MM through other poker books. That shows the power of their concepts and quality.

[chezlaw]

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I wish I could remember where I read or saw the story.

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There's a section on Doyle's publishing fun in "the biggest game in town"