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#41
08-01-2007, 10:06 PM
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Re: Football trick play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, but this play is not legal. From the National Federation case book: Rule 9.9.3 "...actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is a problem and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal." [/ QUOTE ] the ball was legally snapped, so u can't use this rule. no where during the play did they trick the defense into thinking the ball wasn't going to be snapped. but [/ QUOTE ] pre-snap: "Hey Coach, Wrong Ball!" I think this qualifies. 
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#42
08-02-2007, 01:20 AM
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Re: Football trick play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The coach should be ashamed. I would pull my kid out of any team that pulled this sort of stunt. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, but trick plays are the best part of pee-wee football. When I used to play, I always looked forward to running trick plays. As long as it's legal, it's fine. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, but this play is not legal. From the National Federation case book: Rule 9.9.3 "...actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is a problem and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal." [/ QUOTE ] If this is illegal, then why don't the refs call it? We have two links to this play being run, and the refs didn't call anything in either case. [/ QUOTE ] Remember when Troy P. picked of Mannings pass but the refs made the wrong ruling, well as it turns out refs are human too, and some of them (yes even at the grade school level) don't know all the rules. Seriously, this is a "dick move man" situation. Yeah you did something that's (probably) legal, but these are ten year olds, are you really happy that you outsmarted 11 ten years olds. Most NFL linemen probably wouldn't know that rule about the snap, but at that level it's their job and they'd better know everything about it. Edit: Bottom line, if the kids (all of them) are having a good time, game on. If not, don't be a tool, just play the game. Cody
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#43
08-02-2007, 11:54 AM
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Re: Football trick play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The coach should be ashamed. I would pull my kid out of any team that pulled this sort of stunt. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, but trick plays are the best part of pee-wee football. When I used to play, I always looked forward to running trick plays. As long as it's legal, it's fine. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, but this play is not legal. From the National Federation case book: Rule 9.9.3 "...actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is a problem and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal." [/ QUOTE ] If this is illegal, then why don't the refs call it? We have two links to this play being run, and the refs didn't call anything in either case. [/ QUOTE ] Because refs at a youth league game are probably very inexperienced and unsure what to do. I was a first-year ref last year, and knew more about the rules of football than 90% of the guys I worked with at the youth level. I posted this on a referee discussion board, and there wasn't much of a discussion as to the legality of this play. It's clearly unsportsmanlike conduct as described in the rule book.
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#44
08-03-2007, 12:32 AM
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Re: Football trick play
Kramer you need to cite a rule that applies before you call this illegal. Presnap it's not kosher, but this is clearly post snap.
The one argument that can be made is that the snap needs to be performed in one continuous motion, which is probably hard to do 'around the corner' like that. Anyone that ever ran a swinging gate or polecat offense knows that snaps can be made to the side as well as between the center's legs. I coach 10-11 yr olds and that QB would have gotten blasted into next week as soon as the center picked the ball up. If he didn't then it's my fault for not coaching them properly.
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#45
08-03-2007, 01:43 AM
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Re: Football trick play
[ QUOTE ]
Kramer you need to cite a rule that applies before you call this illegal. Presnap it's not kosher, but this is clearly post snap. The one argument that can be made is that the snap needs to be performed in one continuous motion, which is probably hard to do 'around the corner' like that. Anyone that ever ran a swinging gate or polecat offense knows that snaps can be made to the side as well as between the center's legs. I coach 10-11 yr olds and that QB would have gotten blasted into next week as soon as the center picked the ball up. If he didn't then it's my fault for not coaching them properly. [/ QUOTE ] I'm going to go out on a huge limb and say that yelling "hey coach, wrong ball" is against this rule. It tricks the defense into believing that a snap is not immenent, and it is yelled right before the sideways snap.
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#46
08-03-2007, 02:25 PM
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Re: Football trick play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If this is illegal, then why don't the refs call it? We have two links to this play being run, and the refs didn't call anything in either case. [/ QUOTE ] Because refs at a youth league game are probably very inexperienced and unsure what to do. I was a first-year ref last year, and knew more about the rules of football than 90% of the guys I worked with at the youth level. I posted this on a referee discussion board, and there wasn't much of a discussion as to the legality of this play. It's clearly unsportsmanlike conduct as described in the rule book. [/ QUOTE ] I used to ref youth lacrosse games, and it would astound me how poor some of my colleagues were, even though they had something like 10 years of experience over me. I made sure I read the rulebook, including all the approved rulings and case examples just so I'd know how to rule in obscure and rare cases such as this. I was one of the few officials who actually called rare stuff like flopping, which endeared me to the defensive players, not so much the offensive players. Most youth officials are just there to make sure the kids don't get killed and for their own exercise. I'd bet you that 75% of the officials I worked with didn't know most of the rules and just reffed "by feel."
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#47
08-03-2007, 11:02 PM
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Re: Football trick play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Kramer you need to cite a rule that applies before you call this illegal. Presnap it's not kosher, but this is clearly post snap. The one argument that can be made is that the snap needs to be performed in one continuous motion, which is probably hard to do 'around the corner' like that. Anyone that ever ran a swinging gate or polecat offense knows that snaps can be made to the side as well as between the center's legs. I coach 10-11 yr olds and that QB would have gotten blasted into next week as soon as the center picked the ball up. If he didn't then it's my fault for not coaching them properly. [/ QUOTE ] I'm going to go out on a huge limb and say that yelling "hey coach, wrong ball" is against this rule. It tricks the defense into believing that a snap is not immenent, and it is yelled right before the sideways snap. [/ QUOTE ] If he yelled it before the snap then maybe, but in this case it happens after the snap, when the ball is already live.
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#48
08-04-2007, 03:48 PM
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Re: Football trick play
[ QUOTE ]
I coached 7-8 yr olds in football. Obviously at that age punting will only gain you maybe 10 yards in field position. I put in a play I called the "hold it" play. Once at the line of scrimmage the quarterback would look confused, hold up both arms and yell out hold it. He would then start walking to the sideline as if there was timeout when in fact he was in motion. We would then snap the ball to the upback catching the other team napping. I only used this play once in a 4th and forever situation. The kids loved it. The opposing coach just smiled and shook his head. Maybe a bush league move but it was fun. IIRC Kurt Warner pulled this during a St Louis Rams game the next season. [/ QUOTE ] Our high school ran a sorta similar play to this. We would sub in a few guys and send a few guys off. But, we only left 10 players on the field. They would break huddle and line up. Then I would run in from the sidelines and set up off the tight end as a receiver. QB would yell "Get out, Get out" like we had too many guys on the field. I would run to the sidelines like I was leaving the field, but was really in motion. QB snaps it, tosses it out to me, no one around me, TD. Felt bad the one time we ran it. We were playing a really small school that didn't have a ton of players. The CB that got burned was a real small guy that appeared to have alot of heart and not much physical talent. He chased me but didn't catch me and as I turned around and left the end zone he looked about ready to cry for getting fooled like he did.
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#49
08-05-2007, 12:42 PM
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Re: Football trick play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Kramer you need to cite a rule that applies before you call this illegal. Presnap it's not kosher, but this is clearly post snap. The one argument that can be made is that the snap needs to be performed in one continuous motion, which is probably hard to do 'around the corner' like that. Anyone that ever ran a swinging gate or polecat offense knows that snaps can be made to the side as well as between the center's legs. I coach 10-11 yr olds and that QB would have gotten blasted into next week as soon as the center picked the ball up. If he didn't then it's my fault for not coaching them properly. [/ QUOTE ] I'm going to go out on a huge limb and say that yelling "hey coach, wrong ball" is against this rule. It tricks the defense into believing that a snap is not immenent, and it is yelled right before the sideways snap. [/ QUOTE ] If he yelled it before the snap then maybe, but in this case it happens after the snap, when the ball is already live. [/ QUOTE ] Watch it again. The center says "wrong ball" gives the ball to the QB, who then also says "wrong ball"
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#50
08-05-2007, 09:05 PM
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Re: Football trick play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Kramer you need to cite a rule that applies before you call this illegal. Presnap it's not kosher, but this is clearly post snap. The one argument that can be made is that the snap needs to be performed in one continuous motion, which is probably hard to do 'around the corner' like that. Anyone that ever ran a swinging gate or polecat offense knows that snaps can be made to the side as well as between the center's legs. I coach 10-11 yr olds and that QB would have gotten blasted into next week as soon as the center picked the ball up. If he didn't then it's my fault for not coaching them properly. [/ QUOTE ] I'm going to go out on a huge limb and say that yelling "hey coach, wrong ball" is against this rule. It tricks the defense into believing that a snap is not immenent, and it is yelled right before the sideways snap. [/ QUOTE ] If he yelled it before the snap then maybe, but in this case it happens after the snap, when the ball is already live. [/ QUOTE ] Watch it again. The center says "wrong ball" gives the ball to the QB, who then also says "wrong ball" [/ QUOTE ] You're watching the second video in this thread. Why don't you watch the first video again? First video is unclear, but it's possible nothing was said pre-snap.
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