Brian & Barry's prop bet

[selurah]

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In fairness though, how many more live tournaments has Barry made the top 3 in vs. Imperium and ZJ? I think that was kinda the point of Barry's argument. Sorel is pretty new to the live scene, but does Justin have more than 3 or 4 top 3 finishes in live tournies?

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Wow, a poker player in his fifties has more live tournament top-3 finishes than two twenty-one year olds? Get out.

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LOL

[selurah]

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wow, i think barry has way the best of this assuming they are doing it for only those events all three enter.

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you serious?

[DLizzle]

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I would be making the bet for fun too, but I think I would have small edge.

[/ QUOTE ] i think your edge would be larger, or mine would be smaller, if i took this bet with you you compared to most people i was hoping would accept, since you seem to be both a good player yourself and involved in the live tournament scene, so you'd know which of the live/tv pros were actually good and which sucked.I think i'll have to just decline this bet, sorry for getting your hopes up.

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When making these comparisons for live play, I don't see why the online community just ignores the issue of tells as if they are some minor effect. Or that a thousand hours of experience in a poker room compares to Barry's thousands of hours. If Barry changes just a couple of decisions correctly in a tournament based on tells, that effect is HUGE.

We spend hours and hours here discussing lines that will gain a few chips in EV, and here's something that can save an entire stack. And only the live players know the value of this variable on the bet. Edge: Barry.

[Azizal]

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When making these comparisons for live play, I don't see why the online community just ignores the issue of tells as if they are some minor effect. Or that a thousand hours of experience in a poker room compares to Barry's thousands of hours. If Barry changes just a couple of decisions correctly in a tournament based on tells, that effect is HUGE.

We spend hours and hours here discussing lines that will gain a few chips in EV, and here's something that can save an entire stack. And only the live players know the value of this variable on the bet. Edge: Barry.

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Agreed. I am in the camp that claims online cash players are superior to live players, but I think the opposite is true for tourneys. A good live player will have more opportunities to steal/win pots via tells. The counterargument is that online players have more experience, and I think in some cases this trumps live reads, but certainly not with someone like BG.

I think online players think this isn't as big a deal as it truly is because they think no one will get a read on *them*, because it's actually fairly easy to not give off tells. They are neglecting the opportunities they miss to win significant pots.

[willie]

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I think brian has the best of this in the sense that Sorel and ZJ are both better tournament players than barry

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[cbloom]

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When making these comparisons for live play, I don't see why the online community just ignores the issue of tells as if they are some minor effect. Or that a thousand hours of experience in a poker room compares to Barry's thousands of hours. If Barry changes just a couple of decisions correctly in a tournament based on tells, that effect is HUGE.

We spend hours and hours here discussing lines that will gain a few chips in EV, and here's something that can save an entire stack. And only the live players know the value of this variable on the bet. Edge: Barry.

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You guys all underestimate the gigantic technical errors that pretty much all "live" players make. They fail to understand the nonlinear value of chips, and make huge chipEV vs. $EV errors constantly. The vast majority fail to implement basic pushbot strategies. No amount of "reads" and "experience" can make up for such basic technical flaws.

[selurah]

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I think brian has the best of this in the sense that Sorel and ZJ are both better tournament players than barry

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Without a doubt.

[RichieValenz]

just out of curiosity, who are your 10 live picks?

[GaryTheGoat]

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When making these comparisons for live play, I don't see why the online community just ignores the issue of tells as if they are some minor effect. Or that a thousand hours of experience in a poker room compares to Barry's thousands of hours. If Barry changes just a couple of decisions correctly in a tournament based on tells, that effect is HUGE.

We spend hours and hours here discussing lines that will gain a few chips in EV, and here's something that can save an entire stack. And only the live players know the value of this variable on the bet. Edge: Barry.

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You guys all underestimate the gigantic technical errors that pretty much all "live" players make. They fail to understand the nonlinear value of chips, and make huge chipEV vs. $EV errors constantly. The vast majority fail to implement basic pushbot strategies. No amount of "reads" and "experience" can make up for such basic technical flaws.

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It's possible that some players have these basic technical skills as well as reading skills. It's probable that Barry is one of those well-rounded players.