Big Stacked AKs

[Dunkman]

Yes Sherman but villain didn't shove this flop, which seems like a pretty good play in his spot, especially if he thinks we'll reraise AQ. Now maybe he's going to give us a chance to bluff with AK before he calls with 88 rather than check, he could also get convinced that we have an overpair and fold. Just because it's a bad fold doesn't mean he won't make it. You're assuming all better hands call our flop shove and all worse hands fold. I understand, I'm just not sure I agree.

[Sherman]

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You're assuming all better hands call our flop shove and all worse hands fold. I understand, I'm just not sure I agree.

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Right. And if one takes this flop with a PP and these effective stacks, it is a trivially easy shove on this flop. However, maybe I am demonstrating the "ideal" way to play against me rather than the "ideal" way to play against a really terrible villain. If he will fold a PP on this flop, I'm pretty sure we should shove. But as I mentioned, he should never fold a PP. Oh well. At the very least, now everyone can beat me. :/

[ThePershore]

I can see what you're trying to say, but:

a) Us checking pretty much tells him we have whiffed overs.
b) He will shove a non A,K, non-club turn waaaaaaaay more, i.e. we're now getting the money in as an underdog not a 50/50 (roughly) shot.
c) Villian will fold pairs below 66 and maybe even 88/99 at least some % of the time on the flop if we bet.
d) By checking we let KQ, AJ push a J or Q turn or whatever and then we're an even bigger dog.

[Sherman]

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I can see what you're trying to say, but:

a) Us checking pretty much tells him we have whiffed overs.
b) He will shove a non A,K, non-club turn waaaaaaaay more, i.e. we're now getting the money in as an underdog not a 50/50 (roughly) shot.
c) Villian will fold pairs below 66 and maybe even 88/99 at least some % of the time on the flop if we bet.
d) By checking we let KQ, AJ push a J or Q turn or whatever and then we're an even bigger dog.

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But he will also check/fold some underpairs to a J or Q turn. Your point about him shoving non-A and non-K and non-club hands (although I really doubt he is afraid of clubs, hell he may even try to rep them!) still supports the fact that he will bluff-shove the turn with a variety of holdings in which case our A high is good.

Don't forget that the villain can't see our hand. You seem to be acting as if he can.

[Dunkman]

Lol Sherman, just for me, I know I feel a lot better about playing you now that I know you don't usually fold the best hand.

[ThePershore]

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Don't forget that the villain can't see our hand. You seem to be acting as if he can.

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What else do we check behind with other than TT/77, your hand is pretty much face up if you check IMO.

[ThePershore]

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But he will also check/fold some underpairs to a J or Q turn.

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So you're saying you'll check the flop and then bet a J/Q non-club turn?

[Sherman]

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Don't forget that the villain can't see our hand. You seem to be acting as if he can.

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What else do we check behind with other than TT/77, your hand is pretty much face up if you check IMO.

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He doesn't know that we have clubs.

[Sherman]

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But he will also check/fold some underpairs to a J or Q turn.

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So you're saying you'll check the flop and then bet a J/Q non-club turn?

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Absolutely. I already stated my prefered line is to check the flop and shove the turn or call his turn shove. Either way, I know in advance that all of the $ is going in by the turn.

Although I may check a turn club or A, but then it doesn't really matter.

[MJBuddy]

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But he will also check/fold some underpairs to a J or Q turn.

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So you're saying you'll check the flop and then bet a J/Q non-club turn?

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Because if *we* blank the turn, and they have an underpair, they will fold a much better hand when an overcard hits.

If we blank the turn and they have that card, they'll call and we're still in pretty ok shape as far as draws go. But here is a classic case of making the best hand fold. On the flop we don't particularly want any hands to fold, but regardless....my PP is calling any jam on the flop(apparently Shermans is too...we play far too alike...).

That doesn't mean I'm going to call when a scare card hits on the turn.