A possible sittuation to fold aa pf

[drzen]

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in response to your highly articulate response drzen ( I hope not a real dr) I like to think that I dont suck...

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Think again.

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The nature of the question implies a hypothetical situation rather than something you are likely to actually encounter. If you were in a tournie where the level of player was so weak you had such an edge, and the payoff was so big, why would you want to risk a probable loss of the first hand, when by chucking your hand you are making yourself a big favourite? of course the value of the pot is massive, but the value of patient poker would surely be just as great with less risk involved.

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It's simple. If you don't call, you do not have the edge you claim to over the field, because you suck.

[PantsOnFire]

I am going to post this (folding AA first hand) in the MTT forum to get their reaction. Please check there soon.

[PantsOnFire]

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I am going to post this (folding AA first hand) in the MTT forum to get their reaction. Please check there soon.

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And here it is: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...ue#Post11241382

[Gonso]

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besides folding to qualify in satellites, taking the hypothetical to silly extents, if i was in a tournie with AA in the first hand, and 6 people pushed all in in front of me, I would fold.

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You suck.

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No, he doesn't suck. Why risk your tournament on a less than coin flip situation? Sure, he has the higher % over the other 6 "random" hands, but 43% is surely not enough of a % to risk my tournament life on the first hand. Remember, AA is nothing more than a single pair.

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This is an absolutely mandatory call, I don't care if it is a tournament. You are going to be putting all of your chips at risk quite a few times anyway no matter what. It doesn't get any better than this.

If you have 40-something percent equity vs. six hands in the first hand, there's nothing to think about whatsoever. Sure, you might get knocked out, but when you don't you will be sitting on a monster stack and a tremendous advantage versus the other players. Going from say, 10k to 70k in the first hand is more than enough reason to call with the nuts.

If you still disagree you need to learn about EV and equity, ICM and so on. This is basic, beginner-level stuff. Yes, you call with AA here.

[TheAcesRToxic]

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besides folding to qualify in satellites, taking the hypothetical to silly extents, if i was in a tournie with AA in the first hand, and 6 people pushed all in in front of me, I would fold.

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You suck.

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No, he doesn't suck. Why risk your tournament on a less than coin flip situation? Sure, he has the higher % over the other 6 "random" hands, but 43% is surely not enough of a % to risk my tournament life on the first hand. Remember, AA is nothing more than a single pair.

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This is an absolutely mandatory call, I don't care if it is a tournament. You are going to be putting all of your chips at risk quite a few times anyway no matter what. It doesn't get any better than this.

If you have 40-something percent equity vs. six hands in the first hand, there's nothing to think about whatsoever. Sure, you might get knocked out, but when you don't you will be sitting on a monster stack and a tremendous advantage versus the other players. Going from say, 10k to 70k in the first hand is more than enough reason to call with the nuts.

If you still disagree you need to learn about EV and equity, ICM and so on. This is basic, beginner-level stuff. Yes, you call with AA here.

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Thanks to all of you who said I suck. I'll remember that everytime I play from here on out.

Gonso,

If you notice, I never said I don't call. I was simply explaining that there can be rationale behind folding in that crazy, unforseen situation. In real life, hell no I do not fold. I'm just one of those ppl that tries to look at this game from all possible angles. Just the way my mind works.

FWIW, yes I do understand EV and such. I know that calling this hand is +EV LR.

[Gonso]

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If you notice, I never said I don't call. I was simply explaining that there can be rationale behind folding

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Well, this is what you wrote:

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Why risk your tournament on a less than coin flip situation? Sure, he has the higher % over the other 6 "random" hands, but 43% is surely not enough of a % to risk my tournament life on the first hand.

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Sounds to me like you are advocating a fold.

Also, you're talking about it like a coinflip because of the percentage of time you'd be eliminated. The problem with that is, it doesn't pay even money if you win: it pays 6-to-1. Yes, you are putting your tournament life in harm's way, but here the risk clearly, clearly outweighs the reward. You are being awesomely compensated to take this chance.

Calling here isn't just +EV, it's a steal in terms of risk/reward. Poker (especially tournament poker) rarely offers values this favorable. If you're afraid to risk your chips here, why even buy in?

[TheAcesRToxic]

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If you notice, I never said I don't call. I was simply explaining that there can be rationale behind folding

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Well, this is what you wrote:

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Why risk your tournament on a less than coin flip situation? Sure, he has the higher % over the other 6 "random" hands, but 43% is surely not enough of a % to risk my tournament life on the first hand.

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Sounds to me like you are advocating a fold.

Also, you're talking about it like a coinflip because of the percentage of time you'd be eliminated. The problem with that is, it doesn't pay even money if you win: it pays 6-to-1. Yes, you are putting your tournament life in harm's way, but here the risk clearly, clearly outweighs the reward. You are being awesomely compensated to take this chance.

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Indeed you are. Again, I was simply trying to explain it from a different perspective. Some ppl simply don't like to risk their tournament life on any one hand EARLY in a tournament, regardless if that's the "correct" mindset or not.

Knowing the nature of the game, I am calling that hand 100% of the time because I do not play tournaments to just cash. I play them to WIN. Some ppl do not play that way, however.

Catch my drift here?

However, looking back on my OP it does look at though I am saying I would not call. Thats my bad on that.

[Gonso]

Yes, I catch your drift fine. Are you're done backpedaling now?

All I'm saying is that folding AA is this spot is about as bad a mistake as can possibly be made in NLHE. I don't care who's perspective you're talking about, how they play, whatever. This is just simply an atrocious move.

[Xanthro]

You can fold AA preflop in the same situations where you're just sitting out.

That means you'll fold into a seat and winning any particular hand does nothing to improve your standing.

[tarheeljks]

one of the problems here is that people keep talking about ev when they really mean expected utility. it's obviously going to be +ev to get it in pf w/aces; whether the expected utility is > 0 is a different story.